I think its time that blizzard wake up and fix their Keys system" I just cant endure anymore people coming into your key and leaving after first pull , scrweing your key with no consequences !!! And youre just there left with a lower key that you need to re grind for no reason. This system is not working and do not enourage ppl to want to use LFG. This game is dieing forcing us to use LFG and being confront to those situations. How many of you had a tank disconnect never come back ? or pull too much wipe and leave ? sometimes ppls just argueing and ending up leaving depleting your key at the time. I think its time they change this obsolete system. How about if ppl leave before the end , the key doesnt deplete ?? or add a2 days deserter debuff to those trolls that doesnt care about your damn key ? i seriously have more to do than have my time wasted by other ppl. Its sure just a rant but its a serious one and im pissed and tired of paying for game that is getting screwed by other ppl. Anyway why would we ever need a deplete system. The fun about pushing key is to go higher not constanly upping it back to what youre able to do. JUst remove the deplete system ALREADY !
Hun I feel u but also paragraph breaks.
i’ve rarely seen any of those things happen and i pug almost all my keys
Play solo games. No one to screw you over. I recommend Mario 64, it has a huge speed run scene with many categories from 16m to 2h.
Your btag doesn’t work?
Mmos are more fun when you make friends Imo.
But apparently you have time for a group to force you or someone else to leave to keep their key at the same level of they wee going to over time it since that is what your suggestion would obviously lead to.
People hate score but if you invite 2200+ people to your keys you have less problems. Some folks simply are not ready for certain levels of keys. I branched out in season one adding all the people i liked in pugs, brought them together and have been playing mostly from a friends list since around april, it’s lovely.
I do jump into a lot of pug keys but seldom pug my own. A lot of players are lost or unbearable to play with and that is the way of the pug.
A deplete-free system does not solve anything, however. It would cause a larger problem where you just re-run the same key over and over again until you have a group time it, which would make the rating system even more skewed than it already is, given that it awards a wildly high score for keys that are untimed.
Part of the fun is pushing as high as you can and that requires timed keys.
Right, let’s not try to do anything that might actually improve the quality of life for the pugging system because some mythic player (who doesn’t even run with those pugs, he runs with friends) MIGHT feel bad about his epeen numbers.
Rock solid reasoning, dude.
Idk about epeen. Could not care less. You fail to see potential blowback given OP’s solution. It is true that i do not pug my personal key because i prefer voice coms on runs greater or equal to +20.
Just because you have a +15 or +10 in your bag does not mean that you belong there. Which is why the system depletes the key one level. Imagine the world where keys never downgrade, there would be many many more disbands than already exist. One mistake and the keyholder could just drop group and relist infinitely. This is a system that would be abused and would not contribute positively.
Show me on the doll where the casual 3/10 M raider touched you.
The “pugging system” sucks because pugs suck. Removing penalties isn’t the solution. The system encourages you to make friends, which is how an mmo is supposed to be played. You trying to throw shade at someone who makes friends just makes you look bad.
Also, not to disparage anyone’s prog, but 3/x mythic is often easier than AotC.
Maybe a -50 M+ Rating punishment for the leaver?
This is better than removing depletion. Back in the early 2000s i played madden nfl games online. They kept track of games that were abandoned via a DNF% (did not finish). I’d be okay with people being labeled as such but that too could be abused where if someone wants to leave they just idle instead of leaving to dodge the statistic. Being able to see how frequently someone bails on a group would be great for putting groups together though.
Great points! The punishment could indeed have unintended results. Maybe just a Karma system similar to WoT and WoWS then.
Practically any rating system you implement that tracks anything beyond success or failure is going to be open to abuse. You cannot “out-code” human behavior, or flag indiscretions with enough accuracy to avoid collateral damage.
Leavers suck, but that’s human nature, not World of Warcraft. The WoW devs can’t make humanity behave itself. We’ve tried it with torture, imprisonment, threat of existential abandonment and death. Good luck getting it done with a Karma System™.
then let us queue for keys and the timer should pause so we can fill a replacement in. Problem solved. LFG is the norm for a LOT of players now, if your’e going to make us with play with randos, then give us SOME protections. The idea behind the manual process worked when the game population was much higher.
This level of hand-holding should not be required from a game developer. This suggestion could be compared to having your parents set up a romantic date for you. Get out there, meet some people and play the game.
That creates MANY more issues.
But you don’t get any protections in LFG either they are far more random in there than they are in pre made groups.
Just make friends with people and problem solved.
True but the score is also the reason returning players (like me) or people who are late to the season to push are typically ruled out due to the fact that they “don’t meet score requirements”.
My 226 Fire Mage pulled 10k overall in a Sang 15 we 2 chested. That was over the top DPS by about 2k, and I’ve got the screenie to prove it.
You can also see the other 3 +15 keys that I 2 chested at the same ilvl and score, but have been promptly declined to every single other key in existence due to my score.
Inviting score works, but at the cost of players who don’t play as much but will literally boost your key. Defining skill by a boostable completion score is toxic.
What advice would you give a player putting together a 5 man group for their key? What would be the best way for them to get 4 strangers, and find the highest chance of success? Ignoring score, which metrics would you use in a world where the score didn’t exist at all? I am Genuinely curious about your thoughts here on this. Looking forward to hearing from you!
Make the score fluid in both directions, not static. Did you brick someone’s key by performing poorly? Trackable by - deaths, overall and combined boss damage taken as an average, times you pulled something that was not attached to a patrol or aggro set that wasn’t aggro’d by the tank; things of that nature.
If you bricked someone’s key by performing poorly your score takes a large hit, along with the people in the group who also take a hit to their score but not as heavily (as it is weighted by performance).
If you succeeded in completing the key but performed poorly (a boost, bad performance, etc) your score will only increase marginally compared to those who had a higher performance metric.
Example - JimmyNoSkill the FoTm frost mage from before decides to leave because he body pulled. The algorithm will track that he not only pulled aggro from a non-attached pack to the tank, but he also died, and he left the key. He’s automatically hit with a 5 minute queue penalty, his score is decremented by a fixed amount because he left a key-in-progress without being the one who owns it, and then the score is calculated for his performance for a failed key and his score is further decremented as a result.
Engineer perspective –
Pretty straight forwards, all the tech is in place to handle something like this, just create a server-side algorithm that allocates damage and aggro table assignments to each player when the instance is created, then when the instance is disbanded or the key is completed take the average completion time (or time since a player left) and calculate a performance score. Compare that average performance score against the average of players who play that class in that role, then generate a dynamic m+ rating increment or decrement based on the result.
In English –
Performance based metrics. If you perform poorly (by the gold standard of being bad and beyond), fail to complete a key on time, or are being boosted (passively tracked with this algorithm, doesn’t need any changing) the points you acquire or loose based on this system are handled accordingly.
I believe the Details addon alone has 99% of this functionality baked into it already.