People don't bother learning how to play anymore

[Feckless-illidan (Feckless)]

If you would like to see for yourself what I am talking about Q up for an LfR … literally 90% of the mechanics are non existent yet those groups still fail over 75% of the time because they have been used to things being extremely easy up to that point where there was NO NEED for self improvement to progress.

This is more about no-one actually leading a horde of 30 people. 2-shot Ghuun yesterday when we dedicated 2 seperate groups to run orbs, and when one of them died I stepped in to take over. It’s only that there’s a lack of leadership.

[Omnipotentjc-zuluhed (Omnipotentjc)]

In my opinion raiding isn’t so much a test of skill but a test of 10 or more imperfect people trying to complete a task.

That situation I find unenjoyable. I haven’t had any enjoyable times in a discord for a raid in bfa. Raiding isn’t for me. But I enjoy pretty much every other game mode? Should raiders have vastly surperior rewards because they’ve done what others could simply have just chosen not to do?

I quit football when I was 16 to do wrestling. Relying on team mates to perform well and for that to judge my performence isn’t something I like. However a good ol game of rugby was way better. Every individual is a savage in their own right now that was a great sport

[Mute-silvermoon]

I’ve been joking for years that WoW is actually Fisher Price’s My First MMO. It came about in Wrath when I watched my then-6 year old niece faceroll people in a battleground with a 1 button macro that spammed any ability that wasn’t on cooldown as a ret paladin.

[Macällän-bronzebeard (Macällän)]

“Improve themselves?” Seriously? It’s just a game. If you don’t like it, maybe you need to find something that fits your more leet style.

The real problem isn’t that Blizz just hands things out. It’s that the handouts are completely random. There’s no sense of this plus this equals this. It’s just, kill stuff and stuff drops. Maybe it’s better than you had, maybe not.

So what you’re saying is … you dont want gear handed out… so then that means you would then need to improve yourself that way you can do harder content and actually get gear?

Thanks for proving my point.
There’s a lot of people running around in 380 gear yet haven’t even cleared normal ghuun.

You should try focusing on what you’re doing and stop worrying about what other people do.

[Ryuk-thrall (Ryuk)]

Heroic raiding is about the only fun thing left and if you enjoyed having a cool looking set from the raid Blizzard killed that with generic terrible looking armor type sets instead of class sets.

If that’s the case you get heroic raid quality get by doing 4 WQs, or afking in a WF. It’s such a boring time to get gear.

Gear is a big driver for me but I’d you can get heroic raid quality gear from doing the mundane then it nullifies any challenging content in the game.

[Willis-black-dragonflight (Willis)]

For the most part I don’t care about others ilvls. As long as I’m having fun I dont let others pixels bother me. I just wish wf and Tf would disappear.

[Wyldeth-moon-guard (Wyldeth)]

Is it possible to learn this power?

[Nonserviam-kul-tiras]

I think the biggest downfall right now is that the game caters itself to everyone and hands out everything with no sense of reward. We see more and more people not even bothering to learn how to play the game or improve themselves so it gets extremely dumb down…

Here’s a simple example of how dumb things have gotten:
the story quest on the horde when you go deep sea diving with a head lamp to find a dead body…the screen is dark when the lamp is off…bright when on… leave it on too long and a big shark kills you…

The problem here? Well you can leave the light off the entire time because all the bodies are marked on the mini map.

THIS is just a small example but exponentially gets worse through each level of gameplay content
Quest>assaults>warfronts>pvp>dungeons>heroics>m+>raids.

If you would like to see for yourself what I am talking about Q up for an LfR … literally 90% of the mechanics are non existent yet those groups still fail over 75% of the time because they have been used to things being extremely easy up to that point where there was NO NEED for self improvement to progress.

WoW needs to bring back the need for self improvement/progression that it used to have…

Yea, that’s right. Back in my day in Vanilila and BC we had to raid up hill both ways in snow. Man, these kids now days. They just aren’t nearly as “dedicated” as we were in the day.

This is such an old and worn out argument. This notion that somehow everyone that you pug with is going to have the same knowledge and dedication to the game as you is just going to leave you disappointed.

As far as lfr goes. It’s hard to find anything in life that you throw 25 strangers into and expect it to go smoothly. Again, I ask myself what his obsession with LFR some people have. it really isn’t impacting the game nearly as much as you all seem to think it does. Especially people who are raiding even normal, much less heroic or above.

[Tokzert-thrall]

well me , I do try to learn my class all this time I was a mage and master all the mage specs , even retiring my mage , thenn went to hunter I pretty good as a bm hunter I enjoy it now , I am trying to learn being a bal druid, it s alittle complicated but, it keeps the game fresh for me .

[Knathragar-norgannon]

Oh, yay, is “accessibility” going to be the new buzzword used by derps to derp about how bad everyone else is? Because we were due for a new one.

[Evilbadguy-malganis (Evilbadguy)]

The only guides I look at these days are mount farming guides. Even mythic raiding is a joke you don’t need to look at guides anymore.

[Medaax-area-52 (Medaax)]

Except the 5% nerf to Ghuun is mainly aimed at Mythic difficulty. Before LFR there were still 2 raid difficulties and pugs, much like now, weren’t doing the harder difficulty. They were doing normal and blizzard RARELY targets lower difficulties for nerfs to raids. Its either blanket nerfs or aimed at the higher difficulty exclusively. The last time I am pretty sure the lower difficulties got nerfed exclusively for easier pugging and for worse players was Archimonde in HFC where they removed half his mechanics from Normal.

[Puremallace-arthas]

Old Blizzard that everyone dreams about it was common to have 10-20% across the board nerfs to end game raid content. It is honestly amazing to me that they solved this pattern.

It was an endless pattern that after a very short period of time things got nerfed hard. All this casual stuff Mythic plus raiders cry about keep casual players busy and off the forums lol

[Ttristt-stormrage]

How can you comment and say mythic raiding is a joke when you have only cleared two normal bosses and parsed well below 10 percent on both…

[Evilbadguy-malganis (Evilbadguy)]

Imagine thinking everyone here posts in their mains.

[Blitzkareeg-area-52 (Blitzkareeg)]

That quest only showed the bodies if you left the light on on the map. If you wanted a challenge, dont use the light and just go to the area marked on the map and scan around for them. I didnt like the light after i got munched by the shark, so i didnt use it after.

[Ttristt-stormrage]

well there is most likely a reason you don’t post on your main, and I am sorry no mythic level raider has parses that low, even on an alt. Below a 10 percent parse shows you have no idea what you are doing in a raid environment.

[Searik-skullcrusher (Searik)]

The biggest issue is not that there isn’t challenge, because there is. The problem is you have to seek out the challenge, and the base game assumes you the average player would have a hard time punching their way out of a wet paper bag. Because of this, there is a large portion of the player base that just never needed to learn basic things or had to rise to meet challenges. I’m sure many of us play different games, and can see that playing on easy or the easiest difficulties not only teaches bad habits, but we never learn how to play correctly like harder difficulties teach us. There’s nothing wrong with an easy mode but I think with how they made the base game it creates this gap, and then people wonder where there’s things like raiderio.

[Littlefella-medivh (Littlefella)]

I cannot remember the details but do remember enjoying the quest. I’d run the light until the shark started coming then shut it off. With the light on it just looked so cool, then total darkness.

[Phydeaux-windrunner (Phydeaux)]

I think the biggest downfall right now is that the game caters itself to everyone and hands out everything with no sense of reward.

Perhaps you aren’t aware, but this is a subscription based game. If you expect people to willingly pay to jump through the hoops you think are necessary you’re going to have a bad time.