People are different. Is that good or bad?

Community General Discussion
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Hey start all this off by saying I may not understand everyone one but I’m willing to show empathy to others. Lets not bash anyone here.

That out of the way. I’m Fulu and have played wow since the start part of an alpha test back in 02-03

I have raided a lot yadda yadda

The point of all this. Some players Suck some player are ok and some are so far past you or me its not even the same game.

Lets talk about the “Bad” players.
What makes a player “bad”?

  • Low Dps/Hps?
  • Dies to mechanics?
  • Bad at Interrupting?

Good players die to mechanics they also fail interrupts and sometimes DPS was not up to speed. Look how long it took Liquid to get world first… Would you call them bad for messing up mechanics like that?

What makes a player “Bad” outside of in combat game play?

  • Talent Builds?
  • Enchants/Food/Gems?
  • How about watching a video?
  • Reading a guide?
  • Understanding abilities?
  • What about (Addons)?

Now we run into problems. Who told that player what talents to go does that player even know why they picked talent A over talent B. Should a player even care? Should they want or need to know what a talent does as long as they picked it up? Also where did they pick up that talent Wowhead? Does that talent tree even make since for this weeks affix? Blinding lights cool but I rather have 15 CDR on Hammer if I don’t need it.

Even the last two sentences I wrote out in plan English about affix and CDR, even that is a foreign language to 90% of WoW players.

What makes a wow player “Good”.

  • Well Dps/Hps
  • Doesn’t die to mechanics.
  • Good at Interrupts.

Well there we go again. Exabit A = Liquid they died a lot to world first queen kill because of these reasons. The one and only thing that makes good players good is “Consentience” It’s not that they don’t mess up its that the rate of messing up over the course of time gets closer to Zero. Good players are good because they keep trying to edge out that .1% more dps or get that 1% more further in by changing a few classes or players to try something new.

Consentience or as you called it back in highschool sports (Hard work and Practice) gets you better at in game combat.

Well I’m not a nerd and cant play at that level or don’t have the time or Yaada yaada yaada. Its all the same worded a different way you may want to word it.

This is where outside of in combat game play comes into action. Stuff anyone can do without being mechanically good at the game.

What makes a player “Good” outside of in combat game play?

  • Have you read your talent abilities and used 3rd party sources such as Discord or Wowheads player made class guides not default class guides?
  • Understand why Enchant A is better for M+ vs Enchant B is better for Raid. Knowing and bringing Pots for each encounter that matches that encounter. (Using https://www.wowhead.com/item=124640/inky-black-potion) for some fights in Palace to see mechanics better.
  • Watching what top key pushers are doing to just edge out a few more seconds from pull to pull.
  • Discussing people independent research papers on specs and how they math’ed out and used in practice why this is better than that.
  • Addons this is going to be hard still saving this.

Being good at WoW or anything in life takes… Time, willingness to learn, ability to comprehend, Adjustment to new information as metas change. (As AI becomes more and more involved with my work IRL I have had to pick it up and now its 30% of my work flow my team has gone from 40 devs down to 20 devs. I’m not saying its good or bad its just the meta but to be in my field I had to become “Good” at my job)

Now on to the hardest topic about player gap in the game, ADDONS.
How do addons negatively effect bad players you might ask.

When you give a new player an addon and say grab DBM or Bigwigs. Do they understand the mechanic that is about to go off? They know its coming but they still on (Broodtwister) doing dps and bam they now have a ring around on them and they panic and run to the wrong egg. Sounds familiar yet?

Now a good player sees timers and sets up around the boss ready at the timer waiting for the ring to spawn and bam they get marked as orange circle, they run to the orange circle on the ground and go back to dpsing. WAIT A BLOODY SECOND!! Why was that player and egg on ground marked? X,Y,Z cordate mapping from an addon that marked the ground for you at the perfect time so you didn’t have to. So not only are better players better but they are now off loading more and more brain power to addons to focus on perfect placements and Dpsing. You are no longer 20 players in the raid you are 21 if not 22. (Most high end raid teams run raid leader through a stream so you can have people doing callouts not even playing the game, This is now meta.)

M+ addons what about auto marker and plater scripts? (what’s a plater script? Scripts could be custom event that trigger when say a mob starts casting it auto swap your character to target that if you are assigned to kick that target) now do that for all 5 players and you stop missing kicks.

There is so much going over custom (RMT) addons and scripts that I could make a 5 hour video going over how they have increased player skill cap more then any other tool.

With all this information what as a community can we do. Help out bad players? How much we should if any at all or just forget about all this data and keep plaything the game with no changes as is.

I personally find that I would prefer a game where if only a little more f’s were given the player base as a whole would get better but also less tension from the high end to the low end. I would like to see more officially supported message boards in game where player could ask questions to more veteran players without feeling dumb. So many are scared to even ask they ended up being the biggest pains to raid with. Image this you lead a read you give a brief run down of the boss and at the end ask “Does anyone have question I rather you ask now before we wipe” and its quite so you pull and bam you wipe and its clear at least 4 people should have had questions. How the Heck do you fix this? Get rid of EGO… Well that’s impossible as long as there is a metric to measure your ego verse other players.

Thanks for your time reading my long winded rant.

Have a great Life,
Fulu

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Well it depends. There are many ways to play WoW. Some people are into high end content like Heroic and M+ Dungeons and Raids. Some are into the story and questing. Some are into gathering and professions. Some play an economic game buying and selling in the AH. Some are into role play or transmog.

Your list above only applies to the small percentage for whom high end content matters. It’s a small part of the player base, many of whom think the game is all about them which is only party true.

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It’s a good thing. We’re all different when it comes to how we all play the game. I don’t see any flaws in it. It is what it is.

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Counter argument a team sports objective is to win. When you play in a team envoirment suchs as a M+ or Raid, the Primary objective is to win. You may say its Fun but the metrics show its not. They did a study on Loot and players that willingly pass upgrades to others and how it can lead to tension even in the most causal of guilds because if you gave loot to someone else and found out that with the upgrade they still preformed at the same level or less you tend to hold resentment for that action.

This was negated by removing the DPS meter and logs from causal guilds and it showed people really didn’t care about loot and tended to perform at a worst level overall, not if people have more fun? The study showed that nether group had as much fun as playing most other single player games.

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If that were the only part of the game then sure. But winning in war takes more than winning a battle. Napoleon is often credited with saying, “An army marches on its stomach”. In spite of that one reason he lost in Russia was that his army starved to death. That is why others are interested in gathering, professions, etc.

WoW is a massive game with many different features, only one of which is winning battles. And many of those battles are lower level involving questing, world quests, etc which don’t require high level skills.

You talk about people in guilds but what percentage of the players are in guilds? You are only talking about that subset of players who focus on high level battles.

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Who did this study? I’m curious to know what study determined this is a majority scenario.

Now I’m confused. Did it determine the tension and resentment went away or not? Because I’d think if there were less grump, there’d be more positivity, which makes stuff fun.

I don’t understand this study, then. Who did they poll for this to try to compare it to a single player game? And why is it even comparing to single player games? MMORPG group content isn’t a single player game. If people are happier in a single player game… why are they in group content in an MMORPG? It’s not even the same type of game. Like at all.

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ngl i didnt read any of this but I will say this

any player can be good as long as they admit their flaws and have the will to improve their mistakes and allow themselves to handle constructive criticism from other players

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The board and pieces might look different but it’s still the same game.

lmao.

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What I’m saying is all roads lead to Rome. Humans will compete over a mundane thing as gathering firewood to live if they think they can do it better then thy neighbor. Look at completive wood cutting. The high end market world of TSM power users allows no room non TSM user to flourish at the same rate. How much people that farm mounts. I see players that Camp multiple toons up to 40+ at one raid to re run it for a single mount or transmog.

You cant name me a topic where people will not use the rules sets around them to gain a lead over others. Not saying its good or bad it just is.

its how people around act. Do you let your ego take over and snub the noobs. or do you take your information you have gained over the years in any topic and teach it to a “newbie”. The term Newbie was once used as to inform others that someone was starting from a “New beginning” and that was respected as how others would know to treat that person with a level of grace and care. We seem to have long passed this.

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Yes I would

Next question

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  • Low Dps/Hps?
  • Dies to mechanics?
  • Bad at Interrupting?

All me. Oh well.

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You say that this is all you, But the truth is it is everyone. It’s not that you make mistakes its the rate at which you make them and the ability to learn from them to improve on an individual level while also bring up the community as a whole.

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:laughing:

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Bad player is the ones that die to stupid things, can’t see why, but blame other for it or other outside factors for it when they can’t.

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The inability to learn from mistakes.
Pointing fingers at others when it’s obvious where the weak point lies.
Kicking anyone when a run is smooth and no one dies, that’s just spiteful.
And finally, the eppen ones who find it necessary to constantly post meters, most of us run a meter, we can see.

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Sweet I’m 619 ilvl from doing delves and world content maybe a normal raid or two. I’m going to do my first M+ Whelp I need to do at least a +4 to +6 because someone in my guild says that’s how I get my next upgrade.

What happens to me when I enter a +4 and don’t even have my interrupt specced into because I didn’t even know it was an ability. Now I start getting flamed by my first group, and I’m not sure why because everyone expects me to know what to do in a +4 but its my very first one and I thought I would learn how to do it like I learned every other bit of open content. Trial and error. That only gets you so far because once you are able to kill everything you need to in the open world and delves your progression in skill and understand kind of stops there. Unless you start deep diving into 3rd party content outside of the ingame screens you are limiting yourself massively in all forms of game play from Roleplay addons, to DBM. or more extreme WAs and raid tools. How many people even SIM.

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When I mean blame other things outside of other people in game I mean things that others shouldn’t really have to consider. Like drinking or other activities that mess people up. I don’t think it’s cool or trendy, it’s annoying that you suck. Or their kids. I had a tank go on a rant about their bad child when they died twice to the same thing on separate pulls. Like sure man.

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a lot of your comments seem to harp on addons

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Its not that Addons are the problem its how blizzard fails to limit or even suggest them or give tools how to learn about them through organic game play. Players need other players to learn about external tools for a game that’s built around said tools.

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I big part of it is context.

I don’t really work super hard on my character, I just follow an auto-rotation and intend to do so forever. It gives me scope to int/trap/cc better.

Yet I’ve gotten myself to doing alright in low Heroic raid and can do keys up to 8/9. I know I can go higher with effort but I no longer find the game fun at that stage, unless I’m with friends.

This is satisfactory for me but in comparison to someone who does 10/11s I’m noobier.

Then someone who does 12-14 they look inexperienced in comparison.

Then 15+ and so forth.

Some players will pretend that your opinion is only ‘relevant’ once you hit 12+ but at that stage you’re greatly outnumbered by the rest of the players who just want to have fun.

There’s the opposite- maybe someone just likes Mythic 0 and normal raid/LFR raid. They want to have fun and get the sets. That gameplay is fun and actually one I might see myself move to down the line.

1 Like