I don’t believe WoW is anywhere near a P2W game, but this argument is just dishonest. Most online games, P2W or otherwise don’t have a definitive endpoint. There is no point where the game goes “you win” and credits roll.
Even Candy Crush, probably the most well known P2W game on the market doesn’t have an endpoint, though it technically does, the developers constantly release new levels so you’re never truly done with the game even if you can somehow get through almost ten thousand levels.
Yeah I can see how you can see it that way and that’s the problem, how do you define “win”? And of course someone can explain how winning should be viewed not as a finish but as a completion of something but that will just be their view on it. The foundation of my stance on P2W is that there’s no definitive agreed upon definition so it’ll just be an endless pointless argument like every P2W thread is similar to my view on “alt friendly”
The same can’t also be done with P2W.
I would think a P2W game would involve having things like a $50 +1mil dmg sword that lets you 1-shot bosses. It’s an extreme example, but that’s my understanding of how P2W games works.
There’s then pay for convivence, which is what quite a bit of games are doing I think (especially mobile games). It’s those that design energy and time limitations to incentivize players to purchase gems or energy boosters.
I’m not here to judge whether all this is right/wrong, but I think that the fears people like me have are valid. The feeling that I can just spend $20 for 200k gold doesn’t 100% sit well with me. Even if there might be positives that came along with it, I don’t feel like I have to fully support it either.
At the worst, the game’s pay2win.
At best, it’s pay2convenience.
Regardless, either way miscellaneous transactions have become way too tied up in the game. Management of Blizzard selling boosts isn’t a mortal sin, by any means, but to deny that the frequency of boosting now is a byproduct of WoW tokens is being purposefully obtuse.
Could create a different channel for it so people that don’t want those services would not see them. Could even call it a services channel. I actually miss the days when trade chat included spamming of sales from profession vendors selling mats or looking for buyers. It made the world feel more lived in.
The most common, and really only definition of P2W is opening your wallet to get a power advantage that other players can’t get unless they too open their wallets.
Here’s another great example. Star Citizen.
Star Citizen sells ships for real $$, and some of the ships have extremely limited quantities that cannot be bought in-game. A great example is the Aegis Dynamics Javelin, which can crew anywhere from 12 to 80 people. Here’s the concept art for it.
You cannot buy this ship in the game, there’s no option for that. The only place you can buy this ship is on the external store. The minimum price for one of these ships? $3000 USD. And no, they’re not using USD as initials for a game-earned currency. That’s US dollars.
So if you don’t have $3000 laying around, you’re at a permanent disadvantage compared to those that do have $3000 laying around that they can spend on a video game. That is pay to win.
Honestly though, if you’re still spending money on Star Citizen, you deserve to get fleeced.
300 million in development costs and 10 years of development later…
Oh absolutely, it’s honestly surprising that so many people spend money on that game…
Did you know they sold a RMT package that gave you all the ships available in the game (at the time) for $27,000 USD? At the time though, you couldn’t even see the package on the store unless you spent over $1000
So you had to spend money, to unlock the privilege of spending more money.
I feel that people who are good at farming, and playing the AH should be rewarded for their efforts. They’re spending time on the money-making aspect of the game, and are using their gains to their advantage. I also feel like there’s nothing wrong with people who offer to sell boost. It’s just another way for them to make money.
But then there’s also a “let me spend $200, swipe my credit card, and get a mythic Sylvanas carry” aspect that I don’t feel is right, especially if there’s other pre-existing issues like poor impulse control. I’ve also seen a site (which I won’t name cause I think that’d be against ToS) that charge $2k for a mythic Sylvanas kill? I’m not sure how valid it is, but I think this is a bit more of a moral issue to me tbh.
Any RMT carries are bannable, but to be blunt, they’ve also always been a thing.
During vanilla you could get carried through Naxxramas, but you paid a premium for the privilege, and there were quite a few websites that offered carries for real cash.
But using the Token as a proxy, that’s 
Why wouldn’t it be, you’re paying gold for a carry, not real $$
Anyone can buy a carry, regardless of how they got the gold. If Joe got his gold via a token sale, and Bob got his gold by selling items on the AH, they can both buy a carry with that gold. They’re both equal, and you’d never be able to tell which one got their gold via token unless they told you.
So it’s the same thing as a RMT, just with a few extra steps
No, because again, you can purchase a carry with gold earned without a token.
If you want proof, go and look at classic WoW or TBC classic, where you can buy carries for gold, despite the fact that the WoW token does not exist there.
This narrative that the token is P2W is not only wrong, but it’s tiring to hear day in, day out from people who don’t know better.
Just because you can make gold through other means doesn’t negate the fact that making gold through the Token is a RMT.
When you guys finally figure out you only play this game, and never “win it”, you will understand why that’s such a silly statement.
And then we circle back around and I have to point out, again, that nothing that you can buy with a token is out of reach for a player that doesn’t buy any. The entire concept of pay to win revolves around being able to pay for an advantage that other players cannot obtain without opening their wallets.
If Blizzard sold items on the in-game store, and those items were more powerful than what you could get in-game. That would be pay to win. But as it currently stands, it is entirely possible for someone who doesn’t purchase a token to outgear and outperform a player who does. So there is no advantage being purchased, there is no ‘win’.
Right, but you’re using a lot of words to dance around the fact that the Token is still a “real money transaction” that players can use to experience endgame content and fast track gear accumulation.
RMT is only defined as actual trading between players typically using a 3rd party interface unassociated with Blizzard. Wow Tokens are literally a Blizzard product. The money goes straight to Blizzard and none of it goes to those offering the service. Instead they get gold or ingame currency. They can use this to correspondingly buy WoW Tokens and buy Blizzard services. But since these cannot be sold or traded without selling the actual account, which violates the ToS, the people offering the services make no actual money.
I was wondering when we’d move away from the 9.1.5 QQ posts, and on to something fresh and exciting! Boy, am I disappointed.