Basically anything you want in the game can be obtained with real money. Leveling, gear, raid progression. Mythic raid progression is probably the only thing you can’t get by buying WoW tokens and turning them into gold. For everyone else, you’re at a disadvantage if you don’t use real money to by tokens and pay for carries. That is the same model that pay to win games use to entice you to spend real money for in game power. Blizzard has just found a way around explicitly trading IRL money for in game power while still profiting from the process. As more and more people leave the game, that problem will only get worse.
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You’re not even guaranteed gear.
And you are correct, with the changes to KSM/PVP Gear…you definitely don’t win anything.
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but like that is true for every possible game, just the amount of money varies drastically.
i imagine jeff bezos could easily make himself a game master in any game he desires
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No game is ever P2W, it’s a game, you’re not winning anything.
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you cant change the definition of a word just to suit your own understanding.
a win is a win, even if you think it’s meaningless.
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That’s the logic of WOW player, you’re not winning anything so technically no game is ever P2W.
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You do get vault rewards even if nothing drops. Also pvp carries allow you to upgrade all of your pvp gear that you previously bought =b
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This. 
People need to learn the real definition of pay to win.
Pay to win is buying items exclusive to a real money store that cannot be obtained in game that gives a clear and decisive advantage over others.
At most, this game is “pay for a chance to skip into higher gear that will be obsolete in a patch.”
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What about all the people who do the carries? They didn’t get carried because someone has to get there first.
P2Comeinsecondplaceatbest might be more accurate if you could actually even win in an MMO.
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not sure what you are saying, if i paid someone to lose a duel to me then by technicality i did pay to win
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Yeah, but you have to win a match at your current rank to buy more gear…so unless you waited until late in the season to save up conquest, it isn’t going to do much good.
If i’m a Blizzard whiteknight, that’s pay2pretendlikeyou’rewinningaduel.
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PVP carries…lol Upgrades are only for rated players, and I cannot upgrade this new bow I got from farming 1800 conquest points .
it’s more pay to progress but that’s only because you can’t actually “win” in WoW. You can just progress more or faster than others.
I think I mostly agree with the sentiment but then it heavily depends on what you play the game for and how. I don’t think there’s any pay to progress when you’re an RPer and there’s only limited pay to progress when you’re a mount collector (yea, you can pay carries for the AOTC mounts, store mounts etc. But you’ll have to get that Love Rocket or Invisible yourself).
Yep pvp gearing is one of the many frustrating systems this expansion. I wish we could just go back to 2 sets of gear.
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Which is true to other MMO as well, this is why when people are saying “X MMO is P2W”, they’re wrong.
There are no such thing as P2W MMO.
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Much like people blame Blizzard for what has happened to the Classic/TBC community when the real problem is the behavior of the players, Blizzard introducing an additional option for people who can’t afford a monthly sub to still be able to play has been taken advantage of by the people selling AND buying boosts. You’d think players have no agency, and they are only forced into buying Mythic clears by some unseen hand, as if they were possessed be a demon.
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Agreed.
It’s obvious a lot of people making these topics have never actually played a pay to win game. Just parroting when someone says on youtube,
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The sad thing, they got other players doing their dirty work with the paid runs and carries.