Pathfinder Exists Because of Players' Lack of Moderation

[Jehoshua-ravencrest]

Why wouldn’t they be.

Rep grinds are used to prolong a certain type of game play. Some games use it to more of an extreme.

Rep grinds should make sense in game;

Want a special item from a certain faction…
Want a pet/toy/mount…
Want a recipe that only they make…

Grind their rep.

It shouldn’t be necessary for pathfinder, it’s why FOR ME it becomes very unrewarding. It makes zero sense in the grand scheme of things. Small changes go a long way.

I’m not trying to gain access to their air space so that I don’t get shot down while gliding on my wonderwing 2.0

That makes sense.

[Gedpriest-queldorei]

flight was taken away to increase ground engagement and increase /timeplayed. Flying shortcuts grinds significantly. This is why we don’t get flying until we’ve effectively burnt out on relevant content we are flying above.

nowadays pathfinder has been swinging even farther into the biggest carrot for the largest grind that has ever existed in wow. You get flying for finishing everything in wow plus 8 rep grinds repeating it all.

when flying arrives, over 80% of the xpac buyers have already quit, and some stats show closer to 85-90%. And then its get thrown away, along with pretty much all of our progression post level 100, for the next xpac.

there is effectively no flying in this game while it is most relevant and only a small portion of xpac purchasers ever get it. Flying mounts are mostly worthless but still sold in the cash shop.

just another of the QoL benefits we obtained 4-6 xpacs ago that was taken away to make us regrind

[Spotti-area-52 (Spotti)]

I hoped it would

[Jehoshua-ravencrest]

flight was taken away to increase ground engagement and increase /timeplayed. Flying shortcuts grinds significantly. This is why we don’t get flying until we’ve effectively burnt out on relevant content we are flying above.

And why do you think Blizzard would want us to be grounded, besides the time-played metric and all the profit-related aspects of that?

[Roshirah-moon-guard]

Oh what a load of horse hocky… Pathfinder exists because we caught blizzards dev team in a blatant lie. “Flying is coming” they said… so we waited, “It’s coming we promise” some started to leave, “We never designed Draenor with flying” the subs tanked like a hull broken submarine. Suddenly it’s “We’ve added flying! All you gotta do is collect meaningless treasures, do a bunch of these apexis dailies, grind all these reps, including one we’re gonna add later. And oh yeah you also gotta complete all the story lines”.

These things would of come NATURALLY with game play (minus treasures and dailies) but the a-hole team decided to be vindictive.

[Jehoshua-ravencrest]

What narratives am I immersed in by doing the same world quests over and over? The actual story content is long over before the grind for flight starts.

Actually, the rep grind for endgame flight begins after the first quest in a new zone; therefore, that’s when we’re immersed in the narratives of the next expansion.

[Gedpriest-queldorei]

just typical human behavior, players will naturally gravitate towards the fastest progression path

they want players on the ground to run into more of their creations, to engage with it all instead of flying over and skipping it. Forces players into literally running into it where all a dev can do to a flying player is try to entice them to come to something interesting on the ground.

I prefer devs to be forced to entice players. That focuses the design on fun and interesting.

[Ryuk-thrall (Ryuk)]

How does flying help consume already time gated content faster?

[Melantin-bonechewer]

No, that is just normal questing. There is a major difference between gaining reps through the normal process of questing and just getting reps just to get reps.

[Shaeleaf-lightnings-blade]

I’d pay 1,000,000 gold to avoid pathfinder rep. I don’t mind doing the quests first.

[Wuthappen-whisperwind (Wuthappen)]

peating it all.

when flying arrives, over 80% of the xpac buyers have already quit, and some stats show closer to 85-90%. And then its get thrown away, along with pretty much all of our progression post level 100, for the next xpac.

there is effectively no flying in this game while it is most relevant and only a small portion of xpac purchasers ever get it. Flying mounts are mostly worthless but still sold in the cash shop.

just another of the QoL benefits we obtained 4-6 xpacs ago that was taken away to make us regrind

this guy nailed it.

[Dexterworgen-nordrassil]

Pathfinder exists because Corporate greed. The end.

[Gedpriest-queldorei]

there is never any guarantee a player will even come back for the next time gate and /timeplayed is relevant to micros

there are rock solid player behavior stats showing clear connections between more /timeplayed and increased micros (mounts and gold, etc). So even if a player is only hanging for one time gate, they want it to be as long as possible. As long as the player will endure.

[Wuthappen-whisperwind (Wuthappen)]

Oh what a load of horse hocky… Pathfinder exists because we caught blizzards dev team in a blatant lie. “Flying is coming” they said… so we waited, “It’s coming we promise” some started to leave, “We never designed Draenor with flying” the subs tanked like a hull broken submarine. Suddenly it’s “We’ve added flying! All you gotta do is collect meaningless treasures, do a bunch of these apexis dailies, grind all these reps, including one we’re gonna add later. And oh yeah you also gotta complete all the story lines”.

These things would of come NATURALLY with game play (minus treasures and dailies) but the a-hole team decided to be vindictive.

exactly what happened as far as I remember it. once they said flying may never be added in WoD people left in droves and then pathfinder was born cause at least those who left had a reason to play again and ever since then pathfinder never left.

[Jehoshua-ravencrest]

just typical human behavior, players will naturally gravitate towards the fastest progression path

they want players on the ground to run into more of their creations, to engage with it all instead of flying over and skipping it. Forces players into literally running into it where all a dev can do to a flying player is try to entice them to come to something interesting on the ground.

I prefer devs to be forced to entice players. That focuses the design on fun and interesting.

Yes, I definitely agree that our human behavior is part of that decision. I would also add that Blizzard keeps us grounded because they expect us to value the story over the means by which we obtain quests to know the story.

Even if flight were incorporated (which I believe Blizzard should allow in the beginning of the expansion, believe it or not), then the narratives and zones should be framed around our ability to fly in the world (i.e., having quests at the peak of mountains only accessible by a flying mount, the danger of being knocked off a flying mount by an enemy NPC, etc.). I think that’s a problem on the game developers’ end, too.

[Macabae-stormrage (Macabae)]

One might imagine it a petty and vindictive because loosing 5 million plus subs in wod and the money folk told em give

THE CUSTOMER what they want.

But It could just be perception I suppose.

[Melantin-bonechewer]

I would also add that Blizzard keeps us grounded because they expect us to value the story over the means by which we obtain quests to know the story.

No they don’t. That possibility shouldn’t even be remotely considered. Through BC, Wrath, Cataclysm, and Mists, aka the majority of this games history, they haven’t cared about that one bit. They aren’t suddenly going to decide, “oh wait, we want them on the ground to see the story.”

[Wuthappen-whisperwind (Wuthappen)]

I would also add that Blizzard keeps us grounded because they expect us to value the story over the means by which we obtain quests to know the story.

No they don’t. That possibility shouldn’t even be remotely considered. Through BC, Wrath, Cataclysm, and Mists, aka the majority of this games history, they haven’t cared about that one bit. They aren’t suddenly going to decide, “oh wait, we want them on the ground to see the story.”

its exactly what they did. on the ground to see the story and content.

[Melantin-bonechewer]

If you believe that, I have a nice piece of beach front property for you in Montana.

Edit: Would also like to point out that the story doesn’t change from your perspective on the ground or in the air. There isn’t exactly a whole lot of story centered around dodging mobs on your way between quest giver A to quest giver B. That entire idea is ludicrous.

[Mokrawr-area-52 (Mokrawr)]

its exactly what they did. on the ground to see the story and content.

That’s the company line, but they haven’t actually delivered on this “engaging” ground content.
They keep designing terrain that is tedious to navigate from the ground, well thinking up new ways to make it more tedious(hello mount equipment!) without ever innovating.
If not for gliders and other ways to fast travel like the whistle, I don’t think I’d have leveled anything past my main before unlocking flying.