Already was, my friend. This just casts it in cement- at least for prepatch.
There is an outside chance that Templar Strikes is used in Midnight proper. Between us being in bad gear at first (low haste), the strength of the Apex proc, and potential changes to what exactly CSAA does and does not interact with- its possible. I wouldn’t bet on it, but its possible.
Keep in mind that they didn’t just bring CSAA back- they buffed it considerably both directly and indirectly. It now awards more holy power than it did before along with our damage being shifted heavily to spenders, it now benefits from Windfury, all melee have had their auto attacks buffed and CSAA damage was buffed to compensate, and Blessed Champion no longer benefits non CSAA auto attacks (an indirect nerf to TS).
There are things they could do to make CSAA less potent but still viable. They could make it not benefit from Windfury like they did for two expansions. They could dial back its direct damage. They could make it not interact with Blessed Champion. They could dial it back to awarding a holy power every other hit like it was before.
Our Apex talent will scale better with Templar Strikes. I can’t see that alone being enough, but its a start. Fingers crossed.
Its really weird the way it all happened. They came out from the start saying that Ret would be all about Templar Strikes and then did a complete 180.
Bringing back Crusading Strikes and buffing it considerably after removing it feels almost like a dev with some really good ideas got a big fat VETO from someone above them.
This one I am unsure what they are actually doing.
Haste now correctly reduces the global cooldown after a Templar Strike or Templar Slash.
It was my understanding that TS had a fixed 1 second GCD. This doesn’t say they are letting it scale with haste- it says the gcd after. Was there a bug that using TS caused the next ability pressed to not benefit from haste? I’m not aware of one, but weird stuff can happen.
The CD was already low enough that it was basically available every time you would have had downtime.
What we need to have answers for is whether or not the generation of CSAA will be superfluous.
In a vaccum, with the 35% nerf to AS but HP every swing, it gives more HP than the previous iteration
BUT that incurs a HP generation penalty on AoW that wasn’t the case for previous CSAA.
We can do the HP math
Previous CSAA
100 attacks - 50 HP + 40HP (20 AoW proc not factoring crit (AoW was 20% before midnight)
So 90hp
CSAA now
65 attacks - 65 HP + 20HP (10 AoW proc not factorin crit (AoW is now 15%)
So 85 HP
Together with other changes it’s less (slightly)*
Templar Strike over 100 attacks
?? HP + 30HP (15 AoW procs) (5 more Apex than CSAA)
How many time would we be pressing TS over that period?
Does the generation of CSAA far exceeds TS and is it material or is most of it wasted or superfluous?
Is the combined damage from AA and TS rivals or exceeds CSAA?
Apex aside, as it is now CSAA brings more and it needs to change because I don’t think 5 more Apex is enough of a gap.
TS also should hit a lot harder, if CSAA is gonna get buffed by the AA changes.
Online now and I can confirm that HoL FAR out-dps’s our Light Within Talent by a significant margin.
Edit: Bad news for us Templar Strikes fans (at least bad news for me )…
One of my main strategies was to count on Empyrean Power to proc Divine Storm in M+, which gave us a 75% with 5 or more targets. It appears that one of the “bug” fixes Blizzard did was that percentage proc. I’m in Dornogal now on the dummies and the proc rate has been drastically lowered (apparently back to 15%). I’ve been on the target dummies for about 5 minutes now testing it.
It really looks as if Blizzard wants us to use csaa.
Damn!
Edit 2: Looks as if we may have a positive bug working for us…
My Rush of Light activates with my generators, regardless of they crit or not.
Edit 3: Switched to csaa.
During burst windows it feels great, but man o man, does it feel terrible outside our burst windows. There are definitely “dead zones”, and that’s practicing on the dummies. I can only imagine when fighting a boss that has Haste-reducing auras. That’s gonna feel really really terrible. The ONLY advantage TS might have is the far faster speed than it had during TWW and HoPo on demand.
I was testing that as well. By removing secondary targets from the proc they have nerfed the crap out of Empyrian Power. A TS build may still take it, but no way a CSAA does. I sat at a dummy in Dornogal and timed 5 minutes of straight autoattacking with CSAA and EP procced a whole 6 times.
I moved that point immediately after. I’m thinking in Midnight we’ll be using Jurisdiction to increase the damage of the Apex proc, so I put it there. It also gives a nice little single target and range boost so that’s cool. You could also make the argument to put that point in Judgement of Justice. With two charges of Judgement and Blessed Champion you get a decent amount of damage from it plus the speed boost has a really high uptime.
You ain’t never lied. And I was seriously counting on that 75% proc as a main strategy. Well, that went out the window…
Agreed. If one is using csaa, they need to put that point anywhere but EP; it’s not worth it.
On another note, I tried csaa and TS. I know it’s only anecdotal but it appears I proc’d more AoW with my auto-attacks than I did with csaa. Will it ultimately make the difference in a 35 min dungeon for our Light Within Talent? I’d like to think so, but only time will tell.
I’m already way ahead of you. Between the additional range and damage, our single target should, in theory, actually matter now. Both Final Verdict and Blade of Justice should hit like a truck.
If you’re taking both of those then what are you not taking?
Edit- the prepatch guide says to take Burning Crusade, but after thinking about it that probably isn’t worth much for Templar without the Midnight 4 piece with Expurg as our only dot. I already swapped Burn to Ash for JJE.
I really want to take Burn to Ash and Burning Crusade, I really do. But I’m taking Radiant Glory for my Templar build. The burst damage now is insane with the 45% buff we received, combined with Crusade and Undisputed Ruling. JJE is a nice Talent but it’s nothing overwhelming or mandatory.
Depends if you want a 30 second build or a 1 minute build. The sims are not reliable yet, so this is really just people trying stuff out to see what works.
I would love to give you a better answer than that, but there just isn’t one. If I were to guess I would say the one minute build is better in raids, the 30 second build is better in pug keys, and in set group keys that work together both 30 second and one minute can perform well.
Please understand though- this is all guesswork and feelycraft right now.
Seal of the Templar is extremely powerful. I mean, 25% increase on Final Verdict? That’s A LOT of power for our single target, which is always lacking.
I honestly need someone to explain the benefit of Divine Exaction. It says: “Divine Toll casts 2 additional times on your target at 150% effectiveness”.
Okay, cool. But looking at the animation, those 2 additional times strike immediately, not in 5 second intervals like our old ability. Here’s what I don’t get: those 2 EXTRA immediate times it’s cast, isn’t it over capping HoPo?? Our number 1 rule of a dps loss is over capping HoPo, and it does exactly that.
So I’m trying to understand why is it a great talent?
If someone can break it down for me, it would be greatly appreciated.
There is no arguing that. I’ve been running that with JJE and Jurisdiction. FV can definitely bring some heat.
In aoe yes. For me, I would just view it as a button to hit right after Hammer of Light drains all 5 holy power. In aoe its going to cap you regardless, but in single target it should give you a quick 3 holy power builder right when you’re at zero.
I would only ever consider it when pairing it with Quickened Invocation to use during wings right after HoL in a Radiant Glory build. Admittedly niche, but has the potential to be fun.
It might even be worth taking Quickened Invocation for a 1 minute build in keys even with Seal of the Templar. Divine Toll hits hard on its own, and is a full 5 holy power builder (in aoe) right after Hammer eats the whole stack.
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