Fake conversation.
2 Likes
No, that is not my policy. My policy and thinking are that you want to keep most of the people the most happy the most you can. If everyone is sold on the idea that gear should go to the guy with the biggest gain then you are gold.
But in a pug raid, people’s feelings aren’t any different to that of those in a guild. I’m sure if you were raid leader and said in chat that your rule was that any unneeded gear was going to the poorest geared guy in the group that some would leave, maybe not right away, but at some point–and you would be left with a group of poorer geared raiders–which would make downing the bosses harder. You might also get people literally swapping out higher gear to lower gear so you reward them.
In the case of doing so as to make it widely known, I think you could have a disgruntled harder working person or two on your hands. If you are in a guild and habitually reward the poorest geared person over the better geared person it will not be liked. Also, what you are saying to everyone when you do that is, don’t go out and get more gear. Don’t work for it. Go play a different game, watch a movie, go for a bike ride, and we will gear you up no problemo, and at the cost of gearing our harder working more devoted raiders.
Our guild had a list, we were not super epic mythic raiders or anything, but it worked for us. Every item for the raid and who it was BiS for. It went there first. If the item wasn’t on a BiS list it was compared against the “currently equipped” list and the biggest upgrade got it.
Back to the pug life
My issue with going off item level, and relating that to effort, is random procs.
Watching someones alt#42 pop [epic trinket of awesomesauce] and you look at that same WQ and it’s [blue boots of wtf #8675309] the better geared has done jack and the lower geared is RNG cursed!
My cook had a WQ today for fish… you gave fish and got resources. My farmer alt, that same WQ for fish, rewarded R3 for a recipe that my cook needs to level.
Watching my “main” get 250 AP or blues while that same quest on an alt has epic i90 pants makes me headdesk into a facepalm.
Well, hey, if that works for your guild and everyone agrees beforehand that that is your rule all the more power to you.
But I reserve the right to think as I please. In my experience with guilds, I have seen all kinds of things work–assuming everyone is on the same page. But I believe you things like Master Looter and the Need/Greed systems were abused. As a result you had disgruntled folks who /gquit and just generally shook their heads at some of the things they saw. There are a lot of immature people who play video games, just generally speaking.
Hence, maybe I am a little biased because of things I have seen people do. In 8.3 I saw a lot of times where people rage quit dungeons on the last boss. And sometimes it was after healing the group was super hard and I was exhausted healing but just wanted to finish and bam, someone leaves. To me to go so far and then to rage quit and bail is irrational behavior and there is no shortage of it in a lot of activities involving people.
M point? When I started this thread it was because I saw irrational behavior and shook my head. And I wanted to get to the crux of the the causes and a solution.
And now we have personal loot, and people force their beliefs on the person still.
the person won the gear, but do they get to decide what to with it? No no no!
Boggle here demands they put it up for roll, or divy it out as he would do it himself. Follow his example people because although he respects you choice, your choice is wrong if it isn’t the same as his.
3 Likes
The only irrational behavior is people wanting other peoples stuff and throwing a fit about not getting it. The crux is the entitled being fed for too long and the solution is let them starve.
Not sure why the forums swapped my character again, but that’s the last reply YOU will get out of me.
I said.
Mysfyre, Bait, Piaras, Celphi, Tiaska, Mayura, etc, etc, etc… lots of characters and I need to start checking which one it has me on so everything stays in line!
First of all, no, I don’t demand it. Put your spin on my words in your head all you like. That is your problem. What I do demand you do is what you like. But as I have repeatedly stated, if you get a reaction, don’t be surprised.
Second, I have yet to see a rock solid point against the roll for loot system that cannot be argued against. Go on and lay it on me if you have a rock solid reason for it being grossly flawed. To me, it is a system that has stood the test of time and I love it.
Third, nobody here has made any mention of the merits of the roll for loot system but me. It appears as nobody else here likes it, and yet I see it used all the time and have never seen anyone in a raid ever complain about it or rage quit because it was used. Let me emphasize the word never. And I mean never.
There is already a roll for loot system, the game handles it.
No one needs to argue the merits of the loot drop system.
No one in this thread has commented on the Loot drop system.
OHHHHHH YOU MEAN ROLLING FOR SOMEONE ELSES LOOT.
Thats not a system.
And the merits are people like you for some reason feel good about it.
Whats bad about it. (no one made mention of merits lawl!)
it takes more time.
It inherently makes you inspect a person to be sure they aren’t lying about needing a piece.
It gets followed tons of whispers for people who may have missed or lost the roll.
Its laughable that you’ve blindly ignored every comment about why Asking someone to roll away their loot is not what they want to do.
People Can choose to not loot the body, because it helps them avoid endless whispers
People can Give away a piece of gear at random because they want someone else to benefit, but dont care all that much.
People can give away a piece of gear to the first person who asks, because they asked, the person says yes, and can no longer say yes to the people after it.
You’re entitled.
You’re a hypocrite.
You seem to be suffering short term memory loss.
If you “feel” sliighted because someone gave away a piece of gear to someone else, and didn’t put it up for a roll, you maybe should look at yourself and ask “why do I feel like I deserved that loot more than the person who got it”. They killed the boss too.
3 Likes
This thread continues on much longer they’re gonna get the idea that it’ll be in everyone’s best interest to make all gear non-tradable
Edit: the game already did the roll system on when it decided who was getting loot. What that person decides to do with their gear (read that again, THEIR gear), is of no concern to you.
20 million people put in for the lottery. One person wins. Said person decides to give 5 million to a charity of their choice without asking the opinion of the other 19,999,999 people. You being in that number. Then you complain that the winner is the lottery shouldn’t have donated his money to charity and instead should have asked everyone who didn’t win the lottery if they could use the money before giving it to charity…
Entitlement
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Then why do you support giving the gear to the guy to who will be getting the least out of it? The idea that that is making as many people as possible happy is, how you say, a lie?
Your “logic” is laughable. You’re just looking for an excuse to justify your punitive desire to give gear only to people who don’t need it and punish those who do.
It’s my loot and I should be able to give it to the person who needs it the most, even if it hurts your feelings that I’m not letting you ninja roll on something you don’t need.
yeah you can’t approach it with a sense of entitlement to someone else’s loot drops
if they decide to let people roll on it, all good
if they decide to just give it to someone for whatever reason, all good
if they decide to keep an item that is worthless to them for vendoring, or if they are a bit spiteful and literally just destroy it - still doesn’t matter, all good
there is no duty of any kind, just view loot from other people in personal loot situations as bonus loot if it happens and no big deal if it doesn’t
3 Likes
I dont. As I have said above, I can see the logic. The only problem is you are in effect then rewarding the guy who has done the least work. Is that a good idea?
To give you an example. Maybe there is a guy with an item level of 85 and one of level 75. You give the lower guy, the 75 some bracer that are level 90. But the guy that is level 85 had run 25 dungeons more and done 50 more dailies in the last two weeks than the guy with the level 75 gear. You are saying that the guy who is level 75 deserves the gear more. But it is an upgrade for both of them, and the guy who has worked harder is out of luck here. Is that really fair to both of them?
The roll for loot system would let them both roll on it. The one who rolled the higher number would get it. That is in effect, a lottery system.
I have never heard of a lottery system that, for example, gave the winning prize to the poorest person who bought a ticket. Both paid the same amount of money for the ticket regardless of who wins.
If you choose to give your unneeded items to the lower geared guy, fine, that is your business but I see a valid counter argument against the idea of it being ideal.
You’re upset that the guy who will get the least out of it doesn’t have the ability to roll on the gear as the guy who needs it badly, because you think the guy who really doesn’t need it is inherently the one who deserves it, even though he’s a stranger you know nothing about.
You have no idea whether the guy who is level 85 even logged in last week.
You are the one using the word “deserve” to override “need”. You should be ashamed.
There is no “deserve”. The guy with an ilvl 75 needs that ilvl 86 gear more than the guy who is already equipping an 85.
1 Like
Well, I have been a guild leader long running and I am strongly against the idea of rewarding higher item gear to the least geared in the group. The problem is it fosters laziness and the desire to actually be the least geared in the group so you can free ride.
Maybe you can’t understand the idea I am putting forth here. But if you dont get it, it is because you dont want to.
Work hard, play hard. And deserve good luck.
So the truth comes out. You would go to any length to keep badly geared people from getting gear, because they don’t deserve gear. At. All. You’d rather sacrifice your own raid team’s progression than give a single piece of gear to a low geared team member. Let them get their own gear, we’re disenchanting this huge upgrade for joe so we can use the mats to enchant john’s gear.
Is it any wonder so many people refuse to join guilds anymore?
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The problem with your thinking is this: I want my team to progress. I want the ones who work the hardest to get the most rewards. If instead I funnel the rewards to the ones that work the least, the ones who work the hardest feel robbed.
And guess what a guy who feels robbed does?
How does bad RNG means someone tried less, or good RNG means they tried more?
Your logic is flawed. Very very flawed.
5 Likes
Ikr, there’s something special in that. At least the ops entitled, vulture attitude brought us together.
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I dont support this idea at all. I dont support any idea that favors one over another for whatever reason. Instead I am all for letting all for whom it will be an upgrade have a shot, no matter for whom it is the biggest and for whom is it the smallest upgrade. Sure, giving gear to the least geared is good from one angle. The problem is, it is bad from a second angle.
Hence, let all comers for whom it is an upgrade have a shot at it.
I dont really understand what you are talking about. Is there a way to assess who tried more and who tried less?
My answer would be the guy with the higher ilevel probably did more work than the guy with the lower ilevel though. RNG may be random in one case, but over time it averages out. Maybe you don’t understand statistics or the law of averaging, but unless such mathematical concepts are wrong, the premise is solid.
What makes it unfair to them is their lack of social skills, leading them not have friends or guidlies who pass loot to them and therefor everyone else is better off. So they attack everyone else, rather than fixing their own issues. Which is reoccurring theme with op. At least that would be my analysis of them.
Oh I will add that when they don’t have the lower ilvl, they would be left out.
It basically comes down to greed, they always want a chance over others, at the loot, no matter the circumstances.
Edit 2; Which they already had when the loot first dropped. So really they want a second chance at loot. Rng is the favored option of the lazy and greedy. They don’t have to be deserving, they can be dead the entire fight, they don’t have to put in any effort other /roll etc. The list goes on and on.
1 Like