Pandaren Summit

Wyrmrest Accord
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While not a lot of people do rp Pandaren on main, it always seemed that there were a number of folks who were able to at least dust off an alt to have a Pandaren summit at least once a year with a lot of attendance. The only thing is that it’s been awhile since we’ve had one, and there hasn’t been any sign that there would be another.

I thought it’d be interesting to see if there was still an interest in this. Normally the summit events involved gathering at one area and having a philosophical debate and giving speeches and arrive on a Pandaren only.

I have to admit when I attended the summit for trolls (Zul’atal) it was open to all Horde races and took on a weekend event with many activities including things like Direhorn Wrestling, a transmog contest, a cooking contest, sports games, eating contests, and so on. Everyone could come, and I feel like there’s a potential for the Pandaren summit to be more like a festival event with a bunch of activities. I’m just not sure if there would be enough people to make it to the same scale, but I think we could at least consider making the next summit open attendance and have it not so heavily focused on being a lecture and presentation. There’s a big drinking, food, and fighting culture that goes on with Pandaren so surely there’d be some potential to make it more fun!

For now I just think a discussion would be good to see what the interest would be in it for Pandaren rpers, whether they are active, semi-active or just alts that get used once in awhile.

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I can’t play until the end of July so take my input to what you will–

The Pandaren Summits of past where intended to be Pandaren focused because in two-fold I wanted to have events that focused on bringing “Pandaren” RPers out in the same levels of magnitude as Blood Elf, Orc, Dwarf, etc centric events on the server and two, as per the narrative, it would have been ill-appropriate to have non-Pandaren have input on issues of the homeland and people that they aren’t a part of.

At every summit, regardless of host, the keynote of each gathering have been to focus on a reminder of Pandaren culture, to solidify bonds between a shared people, to discuss critical issues, and a celebration of strength to rally up the people for things to come. It was never intended to be “festive” because it’s more of a national pep-rally/tour of arms with a side public exchange between leaders.

There’s nothing against anyone doing Pandaren centric or culturally themed events that are more inclusive to other races. The massively successful Imperial Tournament for example was a Pandaren event, open to all races, and won by a Troll. But the initial spirit of the last summits has been to build a community around Pandaren groups, clans, and celebrate culture. So I don’t think making the “Pandaren Summit” event open to all races for contribution does anything else but detract from that. Especially when all I think will happen is Pandaren will be outnumbered at their own gathering.

My vote? Create all the events you want and tailor the gatherings to whomever you want to have in attendance, but keep the “Pandaren Summit” focused on Pandaren gathering to have a forum on current issues and the strengthen the community that governs and protects the land.

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Glad to see a pandaren summit has been mentioned!! I feel like I was just talking to someone about pandaren themed events and I’m to see the flame being relit in interest for pandaren rpers.

I think you have a fantastic goal, and definitely, anyone here who has been to a pandaren gathering, hosted one, or helped plan one give your input! Even if small. This is a very niche thing and it’s good to communicate what we can.

I definitely do agree with a lot of the points above. It’s doubly so since pandaren RP is not exactly a bustling community , and from what I typically see not too focused on the pandaren culture/lore aspect of it either. Not that thats bad, but this can help bring together characters of all types.

One thing I saw a pandaren gathering do that helped focus on it being -purely- pandaren was that you were only allowed to speak IN pandaren. Yes, this does alienate a lot of other characters from joining but it was a very successful event with perhaps only a couple of nonpandaren. I remember a friend who brought their non-pandaren character (who was raised by pandaren and speaks pandaren) bring their a pandaren character as a place holder, but swapped the image of their main onto the pandaren and kept it up with prism, and was able to participate due to the pandaren language. So it’s not impossible to have characters other than the focus race at the event, just depends how bad you want to be there and what you’re willing to do if you went with the native language only route.

I do think the pandaren language only route can be difficult, mainly due to other people being a tad upset they can’t join in because of a multitude of reasons. Some people simply just want to be a part of something, others have characters they have listed in their canon as being able to speak pandaren, but hard to reflect bi-lingualness ingame due to mechanics (unless you have an elixir of tongues.)

So you have to ask yourself…what do you want this event to be?

Is this an event among pandaren to boost each other up? To rally behind one another and to discuss things important to them and only them? Is this a connection purely for other pandaren to meet each other and cultivate a better community presence? Not to mention, are you prepared for other races to appear under this version? There are other native peoples to Pandaria other than the ursine varient such as yaungol, hozen, saurok (though I doubt there are any rpers of them or ones that would attend this)?

Or is this about sharing the culture with those not pandaren? Is it about an exchange of knowledge with Horde and Alliance on Pandaren history, customs, belief and art?

This will strongly determine what direction you go with anything focus on a singular in-game culture.

Over all, people who are not pandaren WILL want to show up. It is the nature of just people in general, if you’re not allowed somewhere people will take it as a challenge and in a game-setting say you are not being welcoming to others. Happens a lot every time an orc only festival tries to get planned, it always eventually allows other non-orcs. So if you want it pandaren only, you’ll have to figure out a way to deal with any who are not. (Though I have a whole tagent about this I will not go on about)

My advice is to have IC guidelines if they want to stick around since we can’t exactly control people physically in a game.

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Largely in agreeance with Lianshi when it comes to the involvement of other races at a Pandaren Summit, despite our differences in the past.

I would also believe, after also having hosted a Summit in the past myself, that as of currently, Pandaren would likely be outnumbered. And in my experience, when we (Pandaren) have gotten together to discuss the intricacies of Pandaren culture and politics in the past, other races have not been the most supportive or well behaved. Not to say at all that they cannot, or to cast shade on any one in particular, or everyone who is not playing a Pandaren rather, it is just a gamble with certain people I think.

I think an event along these lines could absolutely be one of the more fun events for the year, and certainly one of the better ones. But, a Summit is a bit different I would argue, not an event expressly held for the fun of it, but rather for the political or situational need (There’s a fun time to be found regardless I think). My mind races just at the thought of what the topics could be on in light of all the cosmic insanity over the past little bit.

Nevertheless, The Pandaren Empire will be at and support any Pandaren event we are invited to! Thanks for opening up discussion! :smiley:

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I’m all for showing the rest of the world what we’ve got.

Say “Pandaren Summit” and it already has certain connotations, based on previous experience. I’d suggest preserving the name for events in the same spirit as what has gone before. Indeed, it would be - imho - both fruitful and fun to hold a Pandaren Summit at which we could discuss what needs to be done to successfully host an event open to the rest of Azeroth. Including what to call it, amongst many other things.

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Forgive me but I feel I need to speak my mind on this. As having been to the last two Pandaren summits, I was always left with a sickening feeling in my stomach at the exclusion of other races. I can understand the reasons stated but it still doesn’t sit right with me.

Pandaren are a welcoming race and to go as far as to have an event in only Pandaren says to me, “Pandaria is only for Pandaren and that is all that matters” despite what other characters may have done for the Pandaren people. The Vale was the location of one of the N’zoth invasions and I know there are characters and whole organizations that went to help defend Pandaria. There are characters that are members of Pandaren organizations around. Why can’t they? Sometimes I feel that people are right that Pandaren should be the only ones that speak on what direction Pandaria should go until I remember that other races now live there. A whole tribe of Tauren are now a part of Pandaria in lore. Why can’t they attend? Why can they not speak on matters of their home?

At the same time Pandaria is no longer shrouded in mists and is a part of the world. This just feels like it inherently wants Pandaria and the Pandaren to be isolationist. Pandaria should take its place among the world. Politics do not only sit within the bubbles of whatever race we are talking about. Individuals, organizations, nations will want to work with Pandaria. Why can’t they come and make proposals on trade or on matters of diplomacy?

And lastly I have seen a number of events from multiple races (Orcs, Night elf, Tauren, and Dwarf) that did not need to exclude other races. Each one has their own racial niche yet seems to do just fine. If other races that are stuck on their faction can do it, why can’t Pandaren that span both factions?

Honestly, I don’t think I am going to support any more events that exclude others like this. It doesn’t feel right to me no matter the reasons. And if this is the way the Pandaren community is, I think I will feel better not being a part of it.

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I’ve been reading all the points and a bit scattered today, but I wanted to add another thought if anyone is willing to read it over. I wonder if there’s ways to satisfy both desires? For example, if it was transformed into a weekend-style, activity based event, you could have an opening ceremony that is the debate and Pandaren only for those who prefer it that way, and then open it up for the activities after. I am speaking only hypothetically though. Pandaren rp is still niche and there may not be the manpower to support a different style of event.

There is another thing I was wondering and it’s more pedantic, but I guess it’s asking what makes Zul’atal and Pandaren summit each a ‘summit’ and why they are so different. It could be a language thing and me not understanding what a summit is expected to be, in my mind if it fits the definition of summit while being something different, I’d still call it a Pandaren Summit because I assumed the idea is broad, but maybe by now I guess there’s expectations that this is what a Pandaren Summit is supposed to be like.

@Buhai

I wanted to add this real quick, but I can understand the Pandaren exclusionism in it, though I may not personally support it myself. When I was new to RP on WRA I was told about a festival event in Pandaria and it was one of the first events I went to on WRA. It was actually only blood elves and I was the only Pandaren there! It was a bit shocking, but Pandaria has become an event staging ground for a lot of events that aren’t Pandaren at all, and I’ve seen groups that exclude Pandaren but make use of Pandaria. I do feel like it was amazing to go to an all Pandaren event, so I could see it be disappointing to organize a Pandaren event and be outnumbered ten to one.

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I haven’t contributed. But yeah, I’d be down! Got a bunch of Pandaren peeps I could invite along, too.

As for inclusion, I’ll attend either way; however, I do favor exclusion for most of the reasons already stated above along with the fact that those that started the tradition (Steelpaw) went this route and thus I feel it should be their decision as to whether that should change. I don’t see anything wrong with a separate event for those that want something more inclusive. A “Pandaren Cultural Festival” or something of that sort, perhaps?

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When the summits first started they were in response to major events impacting Pandaria(and Azeroth) that was a ripe opportunity to have the Pandaren people tackle cohesively. Not only to deal with current events but to remedy the greater divide that existed with the Pandaren people whom were separated by either ideology or faction but as a -player- the event was created to bring the Pandaren community together cohesively who had a unique issue of being separated by the game mechanic barrier of cross faction.

All four “Pandaren Summits” were intended to revolve around providing solutions to the in-game narrative and player meta problem. Issues that other “communities” don’t have to deal with as prominently with each “Host” of the Summit having a theme and atmosphere that addressed the current issue.

  1. First Summit(Steelpaw): Celebrating Victory over the Legion, cultural pride, threat of the 4th war and finding unity. Theme: Strength

  2. Second Summit(Steelpaw): Tensions over whom picked sides in the middle of the 4th war, Azerite stores on Pandaria and surrounding islands, trying to maintain an identity of a shared people. Theme: Perseverance

  3. Third Summit:(Pandaren Empire): Threat of N’zoth in the Vale, Mogu and Mantid assaults, putting aside differences and tensions built during the 4th war, reforging a community of Pandaria’s protectors. Theme: Unity

  4. Fourth Summit:(Kui Zhang/Steelpaw) Victory in the Vale, Rumors of restless dead, reflecting those who sacrificed everything to protect the land, a rally of martial prowess for battles to come. Theme: Courage

Each guild/group who host would alter the spirit of the summit to be in line with their values, giving a bit of new flavor each time a gathering was called, but outside of that they’ve all had a structure each time. Problems, then Solutions, then Rally the People. Political intrigue would get mixed in, rivalries, bonds forged, etc etc. But it’s “because” the Pandaren summits were Pandaren exclusive that made them unique but also opened up more opportunity for other RP. It’s because there was a line of division, not just in the Pandaren groups, but across faction/ideologies that RP flourished.

You’re taking this -way- too seriously.

No one is saying other races cannot attend Pandaren events. There have been several, literally the overwhelming vast majority of Pandaren events on the server have been open to all races. We have Tea house events, story circles, wanderer’s festival gatherings, even martial arts/pvp tournaments giving out more than a half million of gold prizes for all races(which was won by a troll and a Pandaren came second). Only the Pandaren Summit, which happens at this rate twice a year, is Pandaren exclusive and was intended that way for the reasons explained above.

But again, those are the reasons why I started the event. My vote is just one in the midst of it all and I can’t even interact in the game until the end of the month because of hardware issues. My vote: Create any kind of event, gathering, festival, potluck, bbq, dance party, boxing match you want and invite anyone you’d like. But I say keep the “Pandaren Summit” Pandaren exclusive with the same atmosphere as it has been(which has been successful) as is.

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In my opinion, The Pandaren Summit has a unique identity that should be preserved. We shouldn’t change that just for the sake of improving RP activity.

However, in my opinion the summit should not only be about Pandaren. After all, there are other races in Pandaria who aren’t Pandaren (Yaungol, Hozen, Jinyu, etc). But we should be extremely careful about allowing races not native to Pandaria to attend the summit. Opening those flood gates would be very difficult to close I think.

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Then make another event for that particular occasion, best to do one thing well than try to accommodate others at the expense of quality.

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A lot of the concept and initial stages in organizing an event means that you’re going to draw the parameters and typically the procedure of what an event is going to entail; who’s allowed and who isn’t. Sometimes it’s as easy as making a cooking event and accepting everybody, other times it’s going to be more exclusionary based on a multitude of factors and isn’t inherently hostile-based but can certainly come across as that to someone uninformed. Events themselves aren’t inherently ranked by some sort of metric and it’s safe to say that a lot of them can simply be considered ‘good’ or ‘bad’ at a subjective basis.

Personally I adore events that have a racial theme and I also support those that specifically cater to a strict definition on who’s allowed and who isn’t. Simply because, to both attendees and organizers, it can mean that the lens is so focused that it allows for a certain atmosphere to be provided that others can’t. A few years ago some people tried to do a Krosh’harg - an entirely Orcish festival - but tried to open it up and be inclusive to everyone which certainly held a good bit of blowback from Orcs and other posters who beleive it to be an exclusive event that is a form of both social and spiritual gathering for the Orcish clans.

People can inherently feel aggrieved by not allowing them and/or their friends to be apart of and interact within a group organization. Some may even consider it lore-breaking because there’s no stipulations that such things haven’t been expanded upon or simply showcased in lore. But, to those aspects - a lot of what roleplayers do themselves are inherently created out of the artist’s and community’s mind given form. There’s nothing concrete about one thing must be created and the other discarded. There’s no reason why the Krosh’harg could effectively not be an all-inclusive event. If people themselves do not wish to appear or attend a racial/class-exclusive event then they’re perfectly fine for doing so. It’s best that if they wish to create something that is all-inclusive that they themselves take the initiative and lead their vision with collaborators and other people who share it. It’s only going to cause disharmony within the community when people attack one another over differences in how their own events are being ran. It’s best to celebrate the creative differences of everyone instead of demolish a pillar and tradition of the community and seek to reform it which could lead the entire building to collapse from the drama that would transpire from it.

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When these summits began, it was vitally important that they were pandaren-centric and pandaren-ONLY, due to (1) the previous 10,000-year history of isolation butting up against the (2) tumult, changes, and reality that ONLY PANDAREN can choose a side in the conflict, scarring the homeland and dividing our people. It NEEDED to be pandaren-only to embrace those themes. Have things changed since then? Yes and no. It’s more than Blizz has kind of “moved on” from pandaren and Pandaria, and doesn’t know what to do with either of them. So we as a playerbase try to fill in.

Of course we’re a welcoming people. And of course Pandaria is forever changed, with new peoples moving in and monks identifying with the homeland. …But I’ll never think the first few events were anything less than they needed to be, with pandaren and the homeland being the sole focus.

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I am posting here as a regular Pandaren rp’er myself, and as someone who believes strongly in helping the pandaren community grow.

I understand the points being posted about keeping this pandaren event to pandaren-only, I understand why this desire to exclude others might be present, but allow me to make a few points:

To exclude other races from a pandaren event - while within a roleplayer’s artistic intregrity to do so - goes against Pandaren cultural values present in the lore

This isn’t just something that can exist alongside already present lore like most most creative ventures with rp, but this goes further than that and goes against existing lore. Pandaren in the game and in the books are happy to take viewpoints and considerations from other races, which they would believe is important to the growth of the land.

Remember the message of Mists of Pandaria: To keep Pandaria exclusively to themselves is a reflection of Pride, which has done nothing but harm pandaren in the past. Pandaren would not stand by keeping a political summit racially exclusive. This event needs to be opened up, otherwise it wouldn’t make sense for anyone’s Pandaren to support it, unless they have a racially exclusive agenda.

Finally, This isn’t going to help our pandaren community, which is already small enough. Pandaren are one of the smallest player populations in the game. To give this image of exclusivity is inherently negative. People are going to be put off by it, and won’t be encouraged to create a pandaren to join in. By doing this, we’re selling a negative image of our community to the playerbase, and we just don’t need that right now. No, our numbers will not get drowned out because other races are invited. We can maintain a rule for pandaren-only speakers if we really need to, and it’ll be no different. At the very least, we can give a healthy impression of our community to rp’ers of other races as a welcoming and inviting community.

I hope my points are heard and addressed. I rarely post on the forums, but hearing about this event’s exclusivity from my friend made me disappointed, especially as a long-time pandaren player. I started this game as a pandaren, and I want to see rp surrounding its culture grow, but it will not if we keep things exclusive and unknown, especially when it goes against the very fundamenals of pandaren culture.

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I find that really disheartening. I cannot fathom hosting an event in Pandaria and asking Pandaren roleplayers to not attend. That is really disappointing.

My advice OP, let your event be what you want it to be but try to be inclusive. If you are doing some political gathering, maybe limit it to those from Pandaria, from a Pandaren organization, or have some business with Pandaria (Like establishing trade, offering aid to Pandaria) rather than exclusively by race.

I would also try to distinguish it from the other Pandaren Summit in some way and establish in the advertising that this is separate from that event. To be respectful and courteous to the hosts of the previous Summits.

However, if you can’t think of a name that differs from the other and as long as your event fits the name, I say you can call it a Pandaren Summit. No one owns that and can tell you that you cannot call your event by that name/title. Pandaren Summit is really generic and shouldn’t “belong” to any group or running event.

Some thoughts on names though; Pandaren Summit of the Jade Temple or Shrine of Fellowship Pandaren Summit if using those locations. Perhaps others can help brainstorm names in the thread or maybe you can ask some friends.

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I think the rule is more or less enforced in the OOC sense, not lorewise. Others mentioned the major concern being that Pandaren are vastly outnumbered, and with the introduction of more allied races (especially certain ones whose populations are currently booming), there’s a very real chance of Pandaren being outnumbered at their own event. Imagine going to a Pandaren even and there being more Zandalari present than Pandaren themselves. :grimacing:

That being said, it is a legitimate concern. Unfortunately, there’s just no way you’re gonna please everyone. All that initial “feel good” inclusion feeling is gonna fade fast once you realize you’re one in a dozen at an event that’s supposed to celebrate your own race and culture.

I heavily disagree with this. There are race-exclusive guilds and events galore. This appears to be the most explosive issue within the Pandaren community itself, I’ve noticed. And I must emphasize that I don’t think it’s wrong or bad to feel that way. But this event has been going on for quite some time, and once a precedent is changed, it’s difficult to recover from if it has ill consequences.

I say again, I think the best solution to the whole matter is to maintain the atmosphere of past Summits but open up some kind of discussion of an entirely separate event. Heck, you could even think of it as a sort of experiment. If it goes well, then hey! Maybe the next Summit will be a little different! But as things stand, I have to side with caution.

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The summits have never had an issue in population or attendance being racial exclusive. Ever. All four have boasted head counts requiring at “least” two full raid 40 man raid groups. And that’s accounting that it’s a cross faction ordeal.

And being racial exclusive has actually encouraged players to create “more” Pandaren characters in the past. Guilds who have hosted it, according to the feedback I’ve received from those leaders(including ourselves at the time) received an influx of new alts and mains.

Pandaren RP is down in no short part because RP in general is down. And the big crowds of heyday’s past isn’t where it used to be with an aging game and divided social circle. But I see a lot of problems being brought up that just didn’t exist and if did, not in a way that was significant enough to spoil the enjoyment of the event.

Literally the only barrier of entry is “be a Pandaren” which requires -at most- 45 minutes from the login screen and the introductory quests. Portals are provided, potions in case of language/translation bugs, feasts, etc. Not to mention the time investment/effort that it comes with getting over a hundred plus players together into an organized event, let alone let the event run smoothly. Each host schedules these months in advance. Each event has had something unique from military/martial show of arms, marches, dueling tournaments, feasts, etc.

It’s like complaining about the dress code at a restaurant. If the sign says wear a sports coat and a cocktail dress, you look needy demanding that you get sat wearing bummy New Balances and walmart grade track suits.

If people can even make ‘that’ concession then I dunno bro.

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There is a Tauren in that second pic and its me. Hello!

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I think the exclusion bit is just with speakers and such, right?

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Wait, if there are two whole raids of Pandaren roleplayers, why can’t other races be there like I was? I kinda feel like the Pandaren aren’t going to be outnumbered.

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