I was removed from the pally discord without a means to respond.
I only respond here because it is a neutral place to express ideas.
I was not told why I was removed.
All I can say is there was a disagreement between me and a moderator but at no time was I vulgar or harassing.
If they wish to address the issue I’m more than happy to work with them.
My fear is that the pally discord community moderators are more about reputation than actual theory crafting. I only say this because they were unwilling to provide the math for their guides and were arguing out of subjective responses instead of objective logic. I’m fully willing to except that I’m wrong but that will require further discourse. Shutting people down because they disagree with you has become far too common in this day and age.
Hi, I’m Lincoln. I’m a Prot Templar in the Paladin Discord.
I reviewed the chat log and the action taken by the moderation team. You deserved to be banned for failing to follow moderator instruction in a highly moderated questions channel.
I hope this clarifies the issue.
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HI. Thank you for the response. What was the moderator instruction that I failed at? There were a lot of users coming at me and it’s possible I missed it. I was focused on a theorycrafter who’s name escapes me but it started with an L and mostly I was responding to them.
Just as a side note. How could this clarify the issue as you haven’t said what the moderator instruction was. You are assuming I knew what it was when in all honesty I have no idea what it was. Might I suggest you have a means to address this issue within Discord? Just being remove without knowing why and no means to talk to the person who did it is a flaw in your administration.
Panthea told you twice to do this:
You were responding to Lilaith, who issued the ban. You can DM him to discuss: His tag is: Lilaith#9028
Correct me if I’m wrong but the last thing Lilaith wrote was “prove me wrong”. Which I responded “You are the theorycrafter show me the math”. I have no recollection of Lilaith saying move out of questions.
I’ve sent a friend request to Lilaith#9028 but as of yet I have no other means to talk to them.
Regardless of the source, a moderator asked you to move the discussion. You should have followed it.
This is going to by my last response regarding your status. If you would like to “appeal” the ban, feel free to message Lilaith (Lilaith#9028) directly.
I appreciate your response but outside of moderators I have no idea who I should regard. I tried to address the people coming at me as best I could. If you don’t want to respond any further that is up to you but the matter still needs to be resolved.
First off you were warned twice.
I appreciate your response but outside of moderators I have no idea who I should regard
Panthea is a moderator, his name is in pink. It’s obvious.
Panthea Today at 7:17 AM
If you want to discuss subjective matters move it out of questions and into #holy-general
Panthea Today at 7:19 AM
Move out of questions
Its preventing people from obtaining help
Log Used: warcraftlogs (dot)com/reports/axtAcNg2hQmJVRwW#fight=1&type=healing
Also about your actual question. I have a 423 cyclo. It does ~1800 dps. (=215000dmg/120secs) A 423 haste proc card gives ~250 haste (=1235*12/60).
These aren’t that close for overall damage (on my melee/cs this would be approximately a 280 dps gain. simply scaled my damage for these abilities by the haste % gain from the trinket.) and the assuming a weight of 4 for haste (very high just for arguments sake) you’d gain 1000hps.
On the log these weights are based off of I did ~96000 hps and 10.5k dps.
Gaining 1000hps at this level of healing is a much smaller marginal gain than your dps gain. The objective of a healer isn’t to end the fight with everyone at full hp for the sake of it. You want to make the boss kill as easy as possible which involves doing damage, sometimes priority damage to boss phases or adds, and healing enough to keep everyone alive.
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All I know is I responded to a regular user, white letters, that I was responding to a theorycrafters response, pink letters. From there I was banned within 10 seconds. Lilaith’s response was prove me wrong and my response was you are the theorycrafter show me your math. Outside of that I have no idea what you are talking about.
I’m only human and can only address so much so quickly. If you throw a ton of people at me at once and then expect me to address all of them in an inhuman amount of time then your procedures need to be addressed.
I’m done. Pally discord is what it is. There’s some great talent there but take everything with a grain of salt. Your situation may require a slightly different priority.
One second, let me get my popcorn.
If I had a dollar for every time someone had a problem with a moderator because their opinion was factually wrong or they wouldn’t provide any evidence to their claim…
I’ve been in the discord for a while, I’ve watched arguments happen between some well known good players and mods, I’ve had my own arguments with regular players and mods as well and there was no banning or anything like that. Trying to blame the discord instead of being a bit introspective is probably the wrong move.
It seems you were posting in a channel that isn’t intended for a full 1hr long discussion, it’s just for questions and when you were asked to move you didn’t. That’s probably something banworthy but I have no idea, I’m not a mod.
Also, if you’re going to start an argument/discussion, you can’t come in stating a “fact” and then tell the theorycrafters/mods to prove it for you. Burden of proof is on you there since you made the claim, provide actual evidence next time when you make a claim like you did. It’s not productive to have a discussion when someone who keeps bringing up claims (false or otherwise) won’t provide proof and insists on others doing so first.
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That’s just it. If an expert is being excepted by the community they need to show their work. When they don’t it’s suspect. For instance after further discourse with the theorycrafter I found out their assumptions about haste that were based off early dps numbers and didn’t actually scale with raiders getting gear were wrong. When someone says each point of haste is worth1.1 dps it should send a red flag because haste is at the very least a flat percentage of total dps and might be more if the class’s mechanics are further changed by haste. This is just lazy on the expert community’s part. If you want to be held in high regard then you should be held to a higher standard.
Let’s go even further with this example. When the “expert” says Cyclotonic is worth 1800 dps at 423 ilevel trinket, which tbh is pretty high and totally based on rng, all you have to do to equal it with the haste proc from overlock is get to 30k dps which is totally doable in today’s gear. Overclock has the added benefit of effecing hps and makes it more valuable. The fact that the experts don’t show this in their guides is at best suspect and at worst lazy. At the very least they should say something to the effect “this guide is based on assumptions that are only relevant to top 20 guilds where hpals were doing 10k dps. The problem of scale will change this over time with guilds that arent.” If you ban someone who didn’t notice you and you said don’t do it twice within 1-2 minutes when you had at least 5 people coming at you and decided to address the theorycrafter who was questioning you in the very same channel speaks more to their choice to suppress people that contend with their ideas than actually doing something malicous.
Let’s review the facts:
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A moderator asked you to move the conversation to another channel not once but twice. You didn’t follow instructions, you were removed from Discord.
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You made a post here asking for clarification on what happened which I gave.
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Ub posted the math earlier in this thread to which you have provided no response or counter
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Then you messaged the mod that issued the ban, got into it with him in DM then blocked him
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Then you go to the MMO-C forums to complain more
It seems to me that you have zero interest in being unbanned and just want to make a spectacle of the whole thing.
I’ve reported this thread. It should be locked.
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- List items Explained the issue with the Mod
- Understood the reason after the fact.
- Expressed why the math is obsolete after the fact.
- Worked it out with the mod and showed where the failure was.
- Went to MMO-C because it was another avenue for dealing with the issue when the “experts” banned far too quickly over policy that had nothing to do with the failure on their part to deal with the scaling issue.
Sounds like you are white knighting the issue instead of holding the “experts” to a higher standard.
As one of the those experts, I can say that the theorycraft/guides/etc. done by the Discord are peer reviewed and fact checked against reality. They just don’t come from no where.
If you challenge those peer reviewed and fact checked ideas, the onus is on you to disprove this. I’m not going to speak to how Holy handles things but for Prot related stuff, you better come to the table with more than what you have so far.
Its not white knighting. Its a statement of the situation.
Ppl who give this kind of advice in discord and other media are not public servants. You’re not paying them. They’re volunteering their own time and effort freely and are not obligated to provide you anything. If they find a question interesting they might go ahead and work it out for themselves and get feedback from peers. If they’ve already worked it out earlier then they won’t bother and will just share their findings.
You, or anyone else, don’t have the right to demand a volunteer service you.
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