I do not have the Virtual Ticket or access to the Demo myself, but have been chatting with several Paladins on various discords today.
TLDR - Scaling for Seal/Judgement of Righteousness is wayyyyyyyy too low.
Even without any +spell damage gear, this can be tested with Judgement of the Crusader up and so far SoR/JoR scaling is utter dog $hit:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Kcgtriu1Mf2l_MwAWhTX3IRqL2VCQXs9HjZBJ28Jhe4/edit#gid=0
Whereas proper scaling for SoR/JoR in Vanilla at 1.12.1 was set at:
1hand SoR scaling is 9.2% x 1.0 swing speed
2hand SoR scaling is 10.8% x 1.0 swing speed
JoR scaling is 50%
Plus Judgement stacking is NOT possible according to tests - even with players not being able to see other player's debuffs on the target.
ie: Rank 2 JotC removes rank 1 and trying to apply rank 1 JotC with rank 2 already applied does nothing.
Every class feels off, not just paladins. What the hell are blizzard doing?
Given everything else off in the demo, this is not at all surprising.
I really hope this is just a case of them showcasing it too early and not having things finished.
I really hope this is just a case of them showcasing it too early and not having things finished.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s
GOD DOES NOT WILL IT!!!
Hopefully it will be fixed. Hopefully there will be a beta... One can dream. I still plan to make that prot pally tank.
11/02/2018 11:40 PMPosted by MelanedHopefully it will be fixed. Hopefully there will be a beta... One can dream. I still plan to make that prot pally tank.
Yet they gave ALL CASTERS a 200% crit bonus on their fuggin spells WITHOUT any spell crit talents to do so...
11/02/2018 11:42 PMPosted by Theloras11/02/2018 11:40 PMPosted by MelanedHopefully it will be fixed. Hopefully there will be a beta... One can dream. I still plan to make that prot pally tank.
Yet they gave ALL CASTERS a 200% crit bonus on their fuggin spells WITHOUT any spell crit talents to do so...
*Ignite Mage Intensifies*
11/02/2018 11:42 PMPosted by Theloras11/02/2018 11:40 PMPosted by MelanedHopefully it will be fixed. Hopefully there will be a beta... One can dream. I still plan to make that prot pally tank.
Yet they gave ALL CASTERS a 200% crit bonus on their fuggin spells WITHOUT any spell crit talents to do so...
I am fairly certain that is BfA leftover stuff that needs to be cleaned out. Problem is how much cleaning are they going to do?
Hence why calling for a beta and my "Are you upset?..." thread calling for an outcry.
11/02/2018 11:45 PMPosted by Melaned<span class="truncated">...</span>
Yet they gave ALL CASTERS a 200% crit bonus on their fuggin spells WITHOUT any spell crit talents to do so...
I am fairly certain that is BfA leftover stuff that needs to be cleaned out. Problem is how much cleaning are they going to do?
Hence why calling for a beta and my "Are you upset?..." thread calling for an outcry.
No, I know and I get that but it comes down to a case of...
https://youtu.be/5wUMMN8jVV0?t=160
TLDR - Marketing 101 = You get only one chance at a first impression.
...
I am fairly certain that is BfA leftover stuff that needs to be cleaned out. Problem is how much cleaning are they going to do?
Hence why calling for a beta and my "Are you upset?..." thread calling for an outcry.
No, I know and I get that but it comes down to a case of...
https://youtu.be/5wUMMN8jVV0?t=160
TLDR - Marketing 101 = You get only one chance at a first impression.
Yeah I agree completely.
...
I am fairly certain that is BfA leftover stuff that needs to be cleaned out. Problem is how much cleaning are they going to do?
Hence why calling for a beta and my "Are you upset?..." thread calling for an outcry.
No, I know and I get that but it comes down to a case of...
https://youtu.be/5wUMMN8jVV0?t=160
TLDR - Marketing 101 = You get only one chance at a first impression.
I feel as stupid as this guy after being betrayed by Blizzard yet again....
https://youtu.be/kg-2dAxNQ8g?t=46
I will wait for the panel tomorrow, as I am sure demo numbers will be brought up.
I am willing to bet their answer will be we are still working on getting the values to match Vanilla and are clearing out Legion/BFA data.
I guess we shall see.
I am willing to bet their answer will be we are still working on getting the values to match Vanilla and are clearing out Legion/BFA data.
I guess we shall see.
Is it off? Or has private servers just skewed what we see as "athentic"
1 Like
11/03/2018 12:01 AMPosted by RedheadchildIs it off? Or has private servers just skewed what we see as "athentic"
Knowing Theloras he probably has like 18 videos from Vanilla showing you that it's off =P
11/03/2018 12:01 AMPosted by RedheadchildIs it off? Or has private servers just skewed what we see as "athentic"
11/03/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Cyonan11/03/2018 12:01 AMPosted by RedheadchildIs it off? Or has private servers just skewed what we see as "athentic"
Knowing Theloras he probably has like 18 videos from Vanilla showing you that it's off =P
Well, here is all of the data that Killerduki and I found regarding Seal of Righteousness in Vanilla which we then put into our bug reports from private server to private server - be warned - inc wall of text:
Type of bug: (quest, character, item, spell, dungeon or creature)Paladin Spell
Details of bug: 2 kind of bugs
1 you start with 2x different Seal of Righteousness , 1 Seal of Righteousness hit pretty high and static , 2 Seal of Righteousness doesn't hit at all when you use.
Can you reproduce the bug?
well i have explained about 1 hits higher than it suppose (7 dmg while tooltip says maximum 4) , 1 doesn't work at all.
here is how it suppose to work with formula given with deep investigation : (tested all formulas and all was wrong in wowwiki but this one match 100% precise with videos from 2006 shown here) .
Alright now i took the examples from the Videos posted during Vanilla at 2006
This is the Formula that wowwiki used in late TBC October 27 2007
https://web.archive.org/web/20071027162920/http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20293#see-also-ability
The level 9 paladin is using Pale Skinner where he shown his equipment
He is using Rank 1 Judgement of the Crusader and Rank 1 Seal of Righteousness
Using wowwiki formula which was finalized in late TBC for 1-handed and 2-handed this time:
wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Righteousness_%28old%29?oldid=1096995
Where:
MWS = main weapon speed
MW = maximum weapon damage
mw = minimum weapon damage
Spell damage coefficients
9.2% per 1.0 weapon speed, One-handed Seal of Righteousness
10.8% per 1.0 weapon speed, Two-handed Seal of Righteousness
0,85 * (133,488 * MWS / 100) + 0,03 * (MW + mw) / 2 - 1 = 1handed
1.2 * (2610.43 * MWS / 100) + 0.03 * (MW + mw) / 2 + 1 = 2handed
(keep in mind that numbers that (xxx,xxx * MWS/100) are the tooltip shown so they change with ranks
Using wowwiki formula which was finalized in late TBC for 1-handed
Using the order of operations by math: http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html
0.85 (for 1h) * (133.488 * 2.20/100 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 0.85 (for 1h) * (133.488 * 0.022 for weapon speed in tooltip)
(133.488 * 0.022 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 2,936736 (for weapon speed in tooltip)
0.85 (for 1h) * 2,936736 (for weapon speed in tooltip) = 2.4962256 (for weapon speed and 1 hand)
0.03(weapon coefficient) * 29(min+max weap dmg) = 0.87 (from weapon coefficient)
0.87 (from weapon coefficient) / 2 (for 1h) = 0.435 (from weapon damage)
2.4962256 (for 1h +speed) + 0.435 (from weapon damage) = 2.9312256 (weapon speed+weapon damage)
2.9312256 (weapon speed+weapon damage) - 1 (for 1h) = 1.9312256 (seal of righteousness damage)
9.2% per 1.0 weapon speed * 2.20 (weapon speed) = 20.24% (increased spell damage by judgement of the crusade)
20 / 20.24% = 4.048 (damage increase by judgement of the crusade)
1.9312256 (seal of righteousness damage) + 4.048 (damage increase by judgement of the crusade) = 5.9792256 (judgement of the crusade + Seal of righteousness)
assuming the AP (according to wowwiki 220 AP=1 or 2 damage)
example with 220 ap = 1 damage assuming
(21 Ap unbuffed + 20 from blessing of might) = 41 (Attack Power)
(assuming 1 damage) 41 / 220 = 0.18636363636363636363636363636364 from AP
5.9792256 (judgement of the crusade + Seal of righteousness) + (assuming 1 damage) 0.18636363636363636363636363636364 = 6.165589236363636363636363636363 (Seal of righteousness with Judgement of the crusade + 41 attack power using 220 ap 1 damage)
(not sure how he was hitting sometime 7 but he swing mostly 6) but i assume the extra damage variation per chance (which shows the same on every other video from other expansions (TBC and Wotlk)
wowwiki shows 100% precise with the damage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4 Uploaded on Jun 12, 2006
The level 32 paladin is using heavy spear (can be seen at the end) and he has Consecration, which means he might have used points in Improved Seal of Righteousness (but we don't know). Also he is using Rank 4 Seal of Righteousness
Using wowwiki formula which was finalized in late TBC for 2-handed this time:
1.2 * (668,676 * MWS / 100) + 0,03 * (MW + mw) / 2 + 1
Using the order of operations by math http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html
1.2 (for 2h) * (668.676 * 3.80 / 100 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 1.2 (for 2h) * (668.676 * 0.038 for weapon speed in tooltip)
(668.676 * 0.038 for weapon speed in tooltip) = 25.409688 (for weapon speed in tooltip)
1.2 (for 2h) * 25.409688 (for weapon speed in tooltip) = 30.4916256 (for weapon speed and 2 hand)
0.03(weapon coefficient) * 170 (min+max weap dmg) = 5.1 (from weapon coefficient)
5.1 (from weapon coefficient) / 2 (for 2h) = 2.55 (from weapon damage)
30.4916256 (for weapon speed and 2 hand) + 2.55 (from weapon damage) = 33.0416256 (weapon speed+weapon damage)
33.0416256 (weapon speed+weapon damage) + 1 (for 2h) = 34.0416256 (seal of righteousness damage)
assuming the AP (according to wowwiki 220 AP=1 or 2 damage)
example with 220 ap = 1 damage assuming
(at the very end of the video you could see that he have 300 AP by Gear)
(assuming 1 damage) 300 / 200 = 1.5 (damage gain by AP)
34.0416256 (seal of righteousness damage) + 1.5 (damage gain by AP) = 35.5416256
(not sure how he was hitting sometime 36 but he swing mostly 35) but i assume the extra damage variation per chance (which shows the same on every other video from other expansions (TBC and Wotlk)
wowwiki shows 100% precise with the damage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcWmvxGvoY Uploaded on Nov 2, 2006
Both Videos that date from 2006 (patch 1.11 and 1.12) confirms Wowwiki Explanation and theory with 100% precise!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DymPtTBzB4 Uploaded on Jun 12, 2006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcWmvxGvoY Uploaded on Nov 2, 2006
p.s the damage variation suppose to be randomly each 1-5th hit seen on the videos (the formula is used in late tbc because the vanilla formula didn't match with the videos while tbc did match for some reason) you can see the video.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Seal of Righteousness not working properly
Description
I have been researching yesterday trough the archives of Wowwiki and got the following explanation of Vanilla and TBC Seal of Righteousness (which was clearly doing same job with only difference the extra rank) .
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Righteousness_%28old%29?oldid=566030
Revision as of 15:46, March 28, 2007
Math
Seal of Righteousness on a one-handed weapon. 22 + (2 * (WeaponSpeed*10) - 30) + (WeaponSpeed*0.092*SpellDamage) = Damage per Second
Effectively, SoR gains 9.2% of spell damage per 1.0 of weapon speed.
Seal of Righteousness on a two-handed weapon. 33 + (2.3 * (WeaponSpeed*10) - 34.5) + (WeaponSpeed*0.108*SpellDamage) = Damage per Second
SoR gains 10.8% of spell damage per 1.0 of weapon speed.
Example: A 2.2 speed weapon gains about 18.4% of spell damage per hit. This effectively makes spell damage add consistent DPS, no matter weapon speed.
How it should work this Seal ?
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Righteousness_%28old%29?oldid=1096995
Revision as of 09:34, January 1, 2008
Added Holy damage for a one-handed weapon
= 0.85 * (2610.43 * MWS / 100) + 0.03 * (MW + mw) / 2 - 1
Added Holy damage for a two-handed weapon
= 1.2 * (2610.43 * MWS / 100) + 0.03 * (MW + mw) / 2 + 1
Where:
MWS = main weapon speed
MW = maximum weapon damage
mw = minimum weapon damage
The damage done by the Seal can be increased by up to 15% with the talent Improved Seal of Righteousness (3% over 5 ranks). This damage is added after additional damage is calculated from +spell damage gear.
Miscellaneous
Spell damage coefficients
9.2% per 1.0 weapon speed, One-handed Seal of Righteousness
10.8% per 1.0 weapon speed, Two-handed Seal of Righteousness
Attack Power
Attack Power does increase the damage done by a very small amount because the formula does use the final weapon damage not the base weapon damage. Using max rank Blessing of Might with a lvl 70 two-handed weapon you will get a difference of ~1-2 damage per hit.
Tooltip Mechanics
The added Holy damage per hit as stated inside the tooltip, equals:
cond(eq(HND,1),0.85 * (2610.43 * MWS / 100) + 0.03 * (MW + mw) / 2 - 1, 1.2 * (2610.43 * MWS / 100) + 0.03 * (MW + mw) / 2 + 1)
HND = weapon handedness (1 or 2)
MWS = main weapon speed
MW = maximum weapon damage
mw = minimum weapon damage
cond() and eq() are programming logic terms used inside the tooltip. eq() will check equality of HND (handedness of weapon) against the value 1, and returns a true or false value. cond() will then check this result, and if true, parses the first part of the formula. If false (HND = 2, which is not equal to 1), then it parses the second part of the formula.
The Formula above is only accurate at lvl 66, at lvl 70 the damage is slightly higher. one-handed-weapon : +4.5 (estimated) two-handed-weapon : +9 (estimated) Because the Spell increase with the level of the caster.
(this is same as TBC and Vanilla) since Seal of Righteousness work the same in this 2 Patches.
How it Work in Server :
It add only MWS = main weapon speed
it work with spell damage by 10% (regardless of speed) .
How it should work :
220 (ap according to wikipedia) should give extra 1-2 SoR damage.
Each 1.0 Speed on 1 hand Weapon should scale by 9.2% (if weapon is 2.0 it should be 18.4% , if weapon is 3.0 it should 27.6% etc).
Each 1.0 Speed on 2 Hand Weapon Should scale by 10.8% (same story as 1h) .
11/03/2018 12:01 AMPosted by RedheadchildIs it off? Or has private servers just skewed what we see as "athentic"
Nah, private servers as a mess as they are............ Closer than the demo to Vanilla than the Demo is to Vanilla.
And the private servers are off by quite a ways.
11/03/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Cyonan11/03/2018 12:01 AMPosted by RedheadchildIs it off? Or has private servers just skewed what we see as "athentic"
Knowing Theloras he probably has like 18 videos from Vanilla showing you that it's off =P
Yeah Theloras is a freakin' champ.
Are they off or have you got it wrong on the private servers. I’ll believe blizzards numbers over yours.
1 Like
11/03/2018 01:03 AMPosted by TyrilinaAre they off or have you got it wrong on the private servers. I’ll believe blizzards numbers over yours.
Blizzard "pet defensive stance means it does not attack your mob" Blizzard?
Blizzard "holy fast health and mana regen" Blizzard?
Blizzard "Fort adds health not just increases hp cap" Blizzard?
Blizzard "Of the Tiger = 1 agil and 1 crit" Blizzard?...