Paladins, both Retribution and Protection

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
440

Mmm Kay…

Additionally on the topic of recordings; it was incredibly rare per capita of the population of WoW in Vanilla to do so because of the system requirements for watchable video in that era. If you had of actually attempted it or known anything about the PC quality of that time you would know that most players were not capable of doing so because of their gear.

Why? Because recording video sucked down massive amounts of HDD space, used system memory that most players were already lacking, in addition to the fact that back then most were playing on their moms PC that was a 1990’s ear pile of junk.

Not only this but MOST videos recorded reside on Warcraft Movies website that you need to pay to use now days. (I already told you this before)

Youtube as I have explained to you before was not a place where you could put a full length video if you had the gear to record a decent quality video of the era, you were not going to waste your time on the brand new cat video site (youtube) because it had at that time just come out, had unreasonable limits on the maximum duration of video and low maximum resolution by even 2005 / 2006 standards.

Youtube did not become popular til around 2008, and even then it was not common to find WarCraft videos there.

So far you have provided no argument as to why Protection paladin is bad at tanking AE / trash mobs and Adds like I told you it can.

Contrary to what you may think Protection paladin has a niche in raid, but its never been claimed to be main tank. Their ability to generate truly absurd threat to multiple mobs while taking LESS damage than warriors do when fighting multiple targets is what makes them so damn good.

If you understand how their combat mechanics work, you would not be arguing this. I did not understand why my guild used one back in Vanilla for tanking trash and never really looked into why it worked until this year.

Additionally Protection paladin as stated above is the only tank that can actually make use of PWS unlike Warriors and Druids.

You may consider them a meat shield, but that’s what all tanks are in reality, and different tanks have different uses.

Would I promote paladin to main tank raid bosses on the regular? NO, that’s ridiculous because it’s far too much effort to get them geared for that when its 10X easier to gear a warrior for that role.

However where Paladin tank does work out is as stated before; tanking AE trash packs and adds because of their massive threat generation that allows casters and hunters to knock out adds quickly with out worry of threat issues.

So where is the hang up? Gearing them to this use, and making sure that your paladin shows up to raid prepared with the correct consumables, it’s important just like any other class.

441

Since I have time on my hands… Here is a Vanilla Paladin tanking Dungeons and Raids, BWL, AQ, MC (AE tanking) because it’s what they’re good at.

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442

So far you have provided no argument as to why Protection paladin is bad at tanking AE / trash mobs and Adds like I told you it can.

Strawman, discussed numerous times already. Only re-upping to waste time and save face.

Youtube did not become popular til around 2008, and even then it was not common to find WarCraft videos there.

Logical Fallacy to further push the reinforcement of a notion already given as incomplete.

Contrary to what you may think Protection paladin has a niche in raid, but its never been claimed to be main tank. Their ability to generate truly absurd threat to multiple mobs while taking LESS damage than warriors do when fighting multiple targets is what makes them so damn good

Strawman, appealing to opposition while claiming logical undertones and fields of expertise. Also you providing the Oxynia video is a form of data claiming a Paladin is capable of Main Tanking. This statement contradicts your previous statements.

You may consider them a meat shield, but that’s what all tanks are in reality, and different tanks have different uses.

You must be a farmer with these scarecrows. Another strawman under the assumption of a role without including the full definition of the role. Tanks are not only to keep threat, they must provide mitigation allowing the ease of their respective healer to allow full party attention. Numerous other items are also included such as crowd management on large packs of mobs.

However where Paladin tank does work out is as stated before; tanking AE trash packs and adds because of their massive threat generation that allows casters and hunters to knock out adds quickly with out worry of threat issues.

Logical fallacy under the pretense of mitigation does not matter simply because you can cause a large amount of threat to simply ignore the fact you have none. Just because the warlock can stay alive while using hellfire and generate enough threat to allow their party to aoe trash packs does not make them a tank. It makes them a martyr. In fact the only reason warlocks tank twin Emps is because they already have built in mechanics to actually allow them to perform that role with ease. Righteous Fury was not added until 1.9 so for the vast majority of vanilla Paladin’s were not viable.

As for this. Just because you can clear end game trash packs and kill dungeon bosses in raid gear, does not make you a tank. Attempting to appeal to the fact you can simply generate more threat on multiple targets while requiring an excess of healing because you lack a form of proper mitigation is not tanking.

It’s called being a meat shield. Just because your guild lets you get slapped by the add on Golemagg and other fights where one hybrid alone can baby sit you, as you want to live in your fantasy does not make you a tank. This however is a much better job for a druid. Your niche has no value if others in other roles can easily fill it while still performing their own job.

You are aware there are several different types of fallacies right? You could at least mix up your arguments to make this at least in effort more difficult to oppose.

I can’t wait until classic launches and all these dreams come crashing down. Will someone be able to make gimmick videos? Sure, they have always existed. However, almost all of you will be forced into healing roles, being a niche bot unless you have no purpose, and PvPing simply because no guild wants to cater to your dreams.

443

Keep lawyering it up, you’re never getting anywhere with that garbage attitude and lack of effort.

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444

Your lack of rebuttal of numerous replies has shown the inability to further carry the conversation. The increased amount of hostility in not only the blatant attempts insults and the petty false wisdoms only make you look worse.

I really should thank you, because you did most of the work for me in defeating your own arguments. Consider the thread over because you may have the right to play as you wish. The reality of the matter is with your niche easily filled but competent individuals with numerous roles.

Enjoy healing.

445

Say it ain’t so…

I have not provided any argument only facts. I pointed out that I personally have seen first hand Protection paladin in Raid and that it worked out very well for what it’s intended goal was.

You claimed it never happened and in the same sentence then claimed that if it did happen it was because of “Reasons absurd” and then rationalized your BS with “paladin is just a meat shield”

You clearly don’t understand Protection paladin mechanics and totally fail to understand they take less damage when fighting multiple targets than a Warrior tank. You also fail to understand that Bear druids take the most damage VS melee NPC’s, but their advantage is in their massive health pool and high AC that allows them to soak massive spike damage in a more controlled way.

You went and wrote up a whole load of BS about why you feel paladin tanking is bad, and I still don’t care what you think because you do nothing but dodge the facts. You have provided zero to the conversation and are not worthy of any further response.

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446

All I see is a pally taking waaay more damage than a warrior would and taking ages to pick Onyxia back up after phase 2. In fact if it wasn’t for the warrior offtank taunting 2 separate times and letting that pally regain aggro it would have been a wipe.

The truth of the matter here is… if they’d given the warrior the gear instead of the prot pally… then they’d have a far easier time with their raids.

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447

Don’t bother trying to argue with the guy. He will keep saying the same thing over in over in response to you without bringing his own evidence to the table, spouting that the lack of evidence for your argument is all the proof he needs. It’s obvious he never played during vanilla. Or do we need to find evidence that his character didn’t exist to only have him spout that we don’t have evidence from vanilla era so it only proves his validity?

Seems really similar to me despite the warrior having dark iron for resist (pally can equip that too).

The guy was using SoC with Quel’Serrar after the 1.9 patch with the SoR fix. He also doesn’t have consecration for the snap threat. The guy had no idea how tank properly, which was the case for most paladins out there as there wasn’t the community effort there was for warriors.

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448

In addition to what Zeliek already pointed out the paladin in that video was not even using Holy shield. It was just a gimmick video to show that it can be done…

Does that mean that paladin tanking raid bosses is the ideal situation? Not usually, but I know for a fact that while they’re less than ideal for Raid bosses, they’re an excellent choice for tanking multiple targets. The math indicates that they’re the best choice when tanking multiple targets because of their class mechanics; specifically Redoubt + Shield Spec and Holy shield all in concert with each other. Couple that with some offset raid epics (yes they do exist), and you can have one rather impressive off-tank specifically for adds and situations where taunt does not apply. Many bosses in Vanilla are taunt immune, so the whole taunt argument is kinda bunk in many situations.

449

Yes he was, holy shield is on his 5 key and he uses it almost instantly on cd. If you are gonna lie at least make it a decent one.

Also considering each post of yours rotates between poor attempts at inflammatory, “well you didn’t play vanilla”, “ya well you didn’t get evidence”, and well you’re being mean. You have yet to still give a proper argument and now lying on top of that?

https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20925/holy-shield

It’s on the five key on his screen and he using every time its off CD except in the intermission. At least try harder.

450

Lol. How cute are you.

451

I have this memory of a specific protect pally in my vanilla realm never losing a duel. Can anyone confirm that they were that hard to beat 1 v 1? Or were the other people just bad?

452

You actually posted a fact for once in your life; congratulations!

Turns out that PC’s are still good for something other than playing video games. My bad for watching that on my phone, I genuinely could not see that he did have holy shield, but it matters not because the fact remains that a less than ideal build can indeed tank raid bosses contrary to your bogus claims.

The video was posted to provide you the “proof” you specifically asked for, because you’re totally unwilling to accept the things people have told you to be true.

Even with how ridiculously rare it actually is to find Vanilla era video of the things you’re specifically looking for I found you two, and yet you’re still whining about it.

Any how, you’re continued crying is at least good for one thing; thanks for the bump to such a fine thread that has both entertained you and I.

453

Unless he dueled exclusively hunters, warriors, and rogues, he was a much better player than the others.

He should have gotten annihilated by casters and healers.

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454

Actually, yeah, that is tanking. Acquire threat, keep threat, soak damage. That’s tanking. Infact back then tanks would Stam Stack to be a better damage soak. If an item gave you more stam at the expense of avoidance (parry / dodge), you took it.

Meat shield is just another name for a tank. Automobile, car…same thing.

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455

Vanilla Paladins feel more like an active mitigation tank. Activated block via Holy Shield points me in that direction.

I honestly believe in the FACT that Paladins are not Warriors and should not be played like one (meaning zero healing because you’re the tank). You’re kind of expected to throw a Flash of Light on yourself instead of being “unhittable.”

The tradeoff for having heals as a Paladin is that you are expected to throw a heal on yourself and that’s why I take Spiritual Focus on my way to Consecration.

And you’re right about MOAR STAMINA! :wink:

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456

I played Ret/Prot in Vanilla (mainly Ret). I never had any issues.

457

The one problem with casting while being whomped on is that you can be crushed while doing so. The other problem is that Prot Paladins were already strapped for mana in long encounters. Put both together and its not an ideal situation to ask the Paladin to heal themselves.

458

Depends.

https://classicdb.ch/?item=22194
+
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Reckoning_(old)

459

Reckoning procs off being crit in 1.12. If it were from blocks then yeah, it’d be a far more reliable source of mana matched with those gloves.