This is a pretty poor and inaccurate interpretation of the buffs. Sanctuary is actually incredibly strong for actual tanking. The reason it was never used before was that damage mitigation doesn’t matter in classic. Threat per second does, and Sanctuary never helped a fury warrior do more threat or damage. THAT’S why kings has always been better than sanc, because tanking has never been able survival in Classic at end game.
DOnt worry they will just keep nerfing hunters and buffing shamans. Devs are delusional, you need to make a really ignoratn post to get 300 replies for the devs to even look at it. They do not play the game or read logs, they go based on complaints on the forum. SO if enough people complain maybe they fix it. Chances are not so much.
No they don’t. Like this kind of post is utterly worthless and not helpful. If you think the devs are useless and don’t know what they are doing, why are you playing? Just quit.
So just like always in classic.
Authentic experience achieved.
Idk where yall are getting this. You have the most utility in the game BY A MILE, rets hit like trucks in pvp, exorcism hits like a truck in pvp, you’re bis tanks, every group runs a holy pally. Like.
Shut up lol.
Pally 1 shots and is one of the best AB flag watchers.
Just tell you what I hear as a warrior - “Get full BiS and you’ll be alright buddy.”
Warriors have -10% to all damage while in defensive stance. Rogues have Blade Flurry, while not arguably the greatest, it is free cleave. Druids don’t need block or parry, plus they have 20% reduced damage and max armor easily. Warlocks life taping is mitigated by using the Master Channeler or Dance of the Wicked. The latter being that you can take improved Searing Pain and basically have unlimited mana.
They cannot be up at the same time. I literally farm SM Cath/Armor for people (I make a lot of gold off the trash items and silk bandages) where I am doing 10-15 mob pulls at a time. Aegis and Redoubt cannot be up together. They overwrite each other. Redoubt and Reckoning are two of the worst talents in the game. As you get better gear they become obsolete.
The typical definition of a tanking CD is that it is a situational ability that reduces incoming damage or heals a portion of your health. If you want to stretch the meaning to include immunity from 1 ability that needs to be instantly removed, sure. It’s a tanking ability.
The top ret paladin in the world. Their #1 damage? Melee. Physical damage is ret’s #1 damage sorry. You’re just wrong here.
I’ll let the above sink in because clearly the top damage dealt is even on the #2 ret paladin, still physical:
Because Priests are required to deal with mechanics. Paladins were nice in P1 for Freedom during Kelris, but Priests have been dominating so far. Crazy that you can’t extrapolate the data when presented right in front of you:
Again, you ignore my point of paladins having to do something to boost their healing that Priests don’t have to. They can focus solely on healing. I said it wasn’t a big deal though, more of a minor issue you again think I am making into some big argument.
Yes, I am a bad paladin despite you literally saying Sanctuary is incredibly strong and then saying how mitigating damage doesn’t matter. So it’s so strong that it doesn’t even matter? Do you even listen to yourself? I was tanking in Classic era as a prot paladin long before a lot of people here have been. Here’s my logs from back then even:
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/kirtonos/hearthman?zone=1006#zone=1002&partition=-1&spec=Protection&class=Paladin
You over exaggerate my points and cherry pick how you argue with what I’ve said. Keep trying to ad hominem attack me and call me bad. I am done interacting with you if you are just going to keep making a mountain out of a mole hill. It’s ridiculous. I would love to see your paladin and compare, but hiding behind a retail character is just much easier I guess.
Holy Paladin is the worst healer in PvP by a mile. There are so many ways to make healing difficult for a class that has to cast 2.5 sec heals.
STV is rough. Very little ranged damage. Casted heals are easy to see and kick or counterspell. Curse of tongues makes casted spells 60% longer.
Even if you do get Holy Light off, the spell is expensive and causes OOM quickly.
Its just not a great experience.
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If you’re actually going to sit here and say that rogues have aoe threat over paladins because blade flurry exists there’s no reason to read the rest. You’re just insane and no amount of talking with you will ever be enough to convince you.
If you read what I wrote, you’d see that’s exactly what I said.
What does removing the stacks of fire damage over time on Thermaplug count as? How about the stacking poison from Akumai? I guess if you want to stick your head in the ground those things aren’t “reducing incoming damage”.
I’m so glad you posted this. Here’s a full breakdown of all the paladin abilities in that log:
Melee - 27.10%
Exorcism - 25.84%
Seal of Martyrdom - 18.88%
Crusader Strike - 5.59%
Divine Storm - 5.44%
Judgement of Martyrdom - 2.8%
Judgement of Command - 2.08%
Seal of Command - 1.01%
Total physical damage percentage: 38.13%
Total Holy damage percentage: 50.61%
Their #1 damage type dealt is holy. Their highest INDIVIDUAL damage potion is melee, but it’s true of any melee class as it’s the most consistent part of their damage. So yea, if you don’t know how math works sure it’s mostly physical.
Melee - 32.80
Exorcism - 21.58%
Seal of Martyrdom - 19.41%
Crusader Strike - 6.47%
seal of righteousness - 5.21%
Judgement of Martyrdom - 3.78%
Judgement of Righteousness - 3.08%
Physical percentage: 39.27%
Holy percentage: 53.06%
I’m done. I can’t believe you are this absurd as to post these logs and do ABSOLUTELY no actual research. It’s like you looked for the first thing that agreed with you and filtered out the rest of it. It’s like… wait a minute
It’s the thing I said. Be gone fool.
You said they have no AOE. They do. It doesn’t have to be great. It’s there. That’s literally proving your statement to be false.
You also said they “DO work together” and immediately said “but don’t stack” which is again another contradiction in how you state things. They do not work together, they compete for the same space. Aegis is better in every conceivable way. Redoubt shouldn’t even be in the same sentence in viability.
The warlock tank in my guild was dropping stacks simply running from the boss and if he was timing it right, he would get 0-2 stacks max on Thermaplugg. Does that mean moving away from the boss is just as strong as Divine Shield? As I said, it can be used to circumvent a single mechanic once in a fight. It’s still far behind Dance of the Wicked, Evasion, Enraged Regeneration, Barkskin, Suvival Instincts, Last Stand, Ghostly Strike, Soul Link, Void Walker Sac, Master Demonology with a VW up, and even Demonic Grace. You’re saying that because paladins can Divine Shield, they don’t deserve the ability to reduce damage in a fight or have a built in damage reduction that literally every other tank in the game has several with the exception of Shaman, but Maelstrom Weapon gives them a free instant cast heal which can be pretty big. They still have the 10% damage reduction we don’t.
Accumulatively yes, I misunderstood your argument, I apologize for that. Overall, the majority of the damage is Holy. The majority of the individual damage per ability is physical. Crusader Strike will now be all Holy damage which should see an increase in damage from ret overall. I’ve said this from the beginning.
They proc off different aspects, meaning that having both together increases the overall uptime. But again, you don’t know how math works.
Aegis procs off of everything while Redoubt procs strictly off critical strikes. There is no point in taking Redoubt outside of the fact that Improved Devo aura is no great either (as we are want to run Ret aura for additional threat, and Holy can run Devo if you have one) so it’s a talent filler. A minor issue with Aegis is it competes against Divine Storm and Martyr, but with Sheath, Righteousness scales better than Martyr typically.
So no, they don’t “work together” as they just overwrite one another when one procs. Aegis is up a lot while Redoubt literally only pops up if the enemy crit you. If gear continues as it does with decent amounts of defense on it, by level 60 if they add similar gear, Redoubt will literally never proc and be a dead 5 points.
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You need 140 defense to be crit immune. No one runs the defense gear NOW. And there’s not enough on existing gear at 60.
Read what I said. Just please for once stop stopping where you want and arguing with that. Here I’ll put it in bold:
If they continue to add gear which they have hinted at, we will likely be able to become crush immune at 60 with the gear available which was absurdly hard to do as a prot paladin pre-SoD requiring you to gear and enchant in the weirdest ways. It is possible for Warriors and Paladins to become crushing immune in base vanilla, but much, much harder for Paladins. We could already become crit immune. Regardless, if you had 539 defense at 60 or even 500, Redoubt still becomes increasingly worse with better gear. It does not in anyway work with Aegis as they cannot be up at the same time and Aegis is up far more often for far longer.
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At this point you just refuse to listen and keep stating wrong information so I’m just going to put you on ignore. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. You’re just here to argue. I reiterate, most players don’t have the ability to assess information properly.
Why are you listing overall raid damage for that Ret player? The best metric is Crowd Pummeler 9-60 as it is a pure ST training dummy boss for melee. On that encounter his highest damage comes from Exorcism.
Because if all you want is quick information to support your view, you only look until you find it. Instead of looking at all available data and assessing it completely.
Different encounters can put emphasis on overall. While I agree that Patchwerk fights are the best way to determine overall DPS and damage, I was trying to make the point that individually, most damage will come from melee over every other ability. I misunderstood what Amideus was getting at. As they have constantly said one thing and then immediately contradict themselves in the same sentence.
Sanctuary is the best buff because it stops 24 damage flat at level 60. It’s also not used because it doesn’t make a difference overall. - Amideus.
Like most people, he’ll argue that mitigation isn’t necessary and then will say that mitigation is great in another breath. Just like arguing Redoubt against Aegis. He’s said they “work together” when they don’t. They literally do the same thing, but Aegis also has Shield Specialization built into it even making it better than Redoubt by miles, even if both at a glance are pretty “meh” overall.
When you constantly lie about what I said it’s easy to make yourself out to be a victim. I have not said anything incorrect this entire time, which is why you have to make up a FAKE quote instead of actually directly quoting me. The forum literally lets you directly quote me and you didn’t, why? Because:
My actual quote was quite clear on what I meant. Preventing flat damage from incoming attacks IS very strong. The amount of block value, stamina, and armor/dodge you gain from kings is quite weak. Kings is not valued for the defensive or EHP value it adds, it’s valued because it increases your DMG in classic, the only metric that ever mattered for a tank. And since every main tank was Dual Wield Fury for all of Classic, if all the buff is doing is something no one cares about anyway because survival is not a consideration, only TPS then why would anyone use it?