Paladin class and spec tree

Classes Paladin
1

One of the recurring critique of paladin trees is how bland and uninspired they feel.
So my question is, where are the Thorghast powers?

There is a line up of powers in there that could have been made into interesting Class/spec power. Why not exploit those powers?
As far as I can tell, there is 2 powers that were taken from there and not the most interesting to say the least.

  • Vestige of Hope (Timely judgement)
  • Blood beacon (Inner power)

To list a few more interesting ones.

  • Soul-Touched Reins - Grand Crusader, Art of War, and Infusion of Light reduce the remaining cooldown of Divine Steed by 5 sec.

  • Pendrakeā€™s Brooch - When a party member is damaged below 50% health, you cast Blessing of Sacrifice on them. Cannot happen more than once every 45 sec.

  • Pendrakeā€™s Locket - Damage taken from Blessing of Sacrifice is reduced by 80%, and increases your [Holy: Intellect][Protection , Retribution: Strength] for 10 sec, based on the amount of damage

  • Faintly Glowing Ember - Avenging Wrath and Forbearance abilities fill your Holy Power.

  • Pendrakeā€™s Shattered Aegis - Divine Shield protects everyone in your party.

  • Coldheart Plume - During Avenging Wrath, prevent 50% of damage from enemies. That damage will be dealt to you when Avenging Wrath ends, if the enemy that dealt it is alive.

  • Ring of Unburdening - Abilities cost 1 fewer Holy Power.

Some of them would probably be too powerful but where is the inspiration that could be drawn from them?

11 Likes
2

God this alone in place of ā€œlmao 1 sec durationā€ would actually make the talent worth taking.
I would consider that at least addressing the mobility elephant in the room.

8 Likes
3

Ring of Burdening sounds nice but I guess would be op.
Pendrakeā€™s Locket sounds like a better Recompense and Pendrakeā€™s Shatteres Aegis could be the group utility we are missing, although Iā€™d prefer MoP Aura Mastery .

1 Like
4

I find most of the Torghast powers for Paladins to be really uninspired and unexciting. The one that would be cool is the one that gave 3 charges of HoW, when combined with the one that made HoW useable at any time (and resets the CD, I think).

Retribution can get an extra HoW charge, but thatā€™s it, unless Iā€™ve overlooked something in the DF trees.

Pretty much everything else in there is just bigger numbers, really. The Pony CD reduction would be nice, though.

EDIT: Okay, Shattered Aegis is really cool and powerful, but thereā€™s just no way thatā€™s going to fly as a talent.

2 Likes
5

I could see this being a redesigned Holy Avenger, instead of tripling our HP generation, just reduce the cost of our finishers by 1 for its durationā€¦ increase or decrease duration of the ability to balance it further. Could be 30 sec, could be 15ā€¦ whatever.

1 Like
6

I mentioned a few of the Torghast abilities in my concept submission a while back as well; I think several could have been ported over as is, and really injected our class with some fantasy:

Radiant Essence: I honestly donā€™t know WHY this was left out, as I believe that this would be a great trade-off for using our Forbearance Blessings and Heals, in any game play mode. Blizzard is never going to let us drop Forbearance, so I did an entire rework to incorporate it into our playstyle, rather than just letting it sit as a detriment.

Soulforged Censer: If Consecration has been designed to be a large portion of our gameplay in Dragonflight, WHY hasnā€™t this been added in the Class Tree? Itā€™s a pretty big oversight, IMHO.

Calibrated Sextant: Blessing of the Seasons isnā€™t my thing, but if weā€™re going to have it, why not add this to make it more appealing?

Iā€™d like some older abilities also, particularly:

Glyph of Harsh Words: Iā€™m not sure if some of you remember this from WoD, but it allowed you to use Word of Glory as a ranged Holy attack, which dealt as much damage as it would normally heal.

Iā€™m not sure if modern Ret. would have a use for it, but speaking for myself, Iā€™d LOVE for the return to the utility and fantasy of a single spell that could either harm or heal. Straight up Paladin flavor.

I thought the same about Blizzard giving Windwalkers Fatal Flying Guillotine; it lets your Touch of Death hit five targets at once. Yet, itā€™s in DF! Couldnā€™t believe it.

If our Paladin developers are reading, Iā€™d LOVE for Pendrakeā€™s Shattered Aegis to replace Ancient Guardian of Kings. Please, swap them.

1 Like
7

I actually hope it wonā€™t be put in ever.
Iā€™ll explain why ofc.

Because it would lead to degenerate behavior.
Weā€™d use BoP/BoS at every start of the fight and any time itā€™s appropriate to stack with our other wings and any other cdā€™s.

And trust meā€¦ our dps will be balanced around that. :joy:

For flavor it could be that whenever we ā€œtakeā€ more than our full HP in dmg while under BoP/BoS/DS it would proc the dmg increase.

Ofc weā€™ll just stay and take a nuke to proc it when we can, but it would be less obvious. xD

4 Likes
8

Ahh, you are so right, I didnā€™t even consider how people would try to game the system on Forbearance.

I legit belly laughed on this! I can definitely see Paladins diving in front of every Pyroclasm for that sweet +15% Forbearance DPS, after they ā€˜heroicallyā€™ bless themselves with Spellwarding :rofl:

1 Like
9

Not to be a downer but other than ā€œspells cost 1 less hpā€ torgast powers dont look attractive to me on their own. Now if there was a way to implement the HoW build into ret thatd be cool.

Wasnt FV 25% when SL was on beta? Then it was nerfed to 15%. And from playing since launch sometimes 15% feels like 1.5%. IF we had more ways to proc HoW and more charges maybe. HoW needs to hit harder as well but this is all whishful thinking.

10

Really?
I was always pumped to get the group bubble when I was doing it with friends.
They didnā€™t really like Thorghast to begin with so it didnā€™t happen that often but always made me feel powerful without necessarily putting out DPS.

I mean I get it, some other class felt way better to, I get where youā€™re coming from.

11

Tbh I didnt even know that one existed. Always did torgast alone. I guess thats why I never got it offered to me. I actually like torgast, the solo experience is cool AS LONG as I get nice powers.

The seraphin proc on kills is also kind of fun.

1 Like
12

Weā€™re kind of getting that right?
Onā€¦ our teammatesā€¦ when they fall below 50%ā€¦
Same thing right? XD

13

Lol didnt think of that. We are actually getting a twisted worse version of that power. We are more like warlocks sacrificing allies for power. Being honest, I dont like seraphin. I used it because I had to.

2 Likes
14

Side note on all of that.
And Rayzens IDK if you can help with that. (since you have access to beta)
Does Touch of Light has an internal CD?
It says 3 procs per min on the tooltip in Wowhead.

But I was tinkering around thinking of a ā€œmulticastā€ Ret build that would try use Touch of light to itā€™s full potential.

I went in with the idea to take everything that would either cast twice or something else at the same time.

15

I found Torghast solo boring and frustrating - as Ret I died a ton because when I tried it I was getting no health buff or decent survivability options (and there arenā€™t that many for pallies anyway). So I tried it as Prot and it was soooo slow.

But then I did it on my Shaman, and it was actually fun - spamming LAva Bursts, spamming massive Chain Lightning sprays, and dropping Earthquakes that just annihilated everything. Oh, and my Earth Elemental could actually tank (unlike in the open world) and its Earthquake completely destroyed stuff as well. Survive the first level or two and a Shaman becomes god-like. Paladins, not so much, but this is a rant for another time.

Iā€™ve always disliked it.

1 Like
16

For real? Iā€™m always blasting trough with massive pulls, although Iā€™m maxed out on tower knowledge.

Had the same experience as you as Ret, almost impossible to solo climb. Just keep dying.

17

This was early on, before all the nerfs, changes, etc. and without great gear. Iā€™m sure itā€™s better now, but not because the abilities are awesome.

18

Touch of Light acts like Seal of the Crusader from what iā€™ve noticed, it can proc separately on multiple targets.
But itā€™s still kind of weak, the Consecration talent does more dmgā€¦ maybe after tuning.

19

People on the Discord also told me that it wasnā€™t ā€œeruptingā€ .
From the description, I was under the impression that it was a ā€œon-target light decreeā€ kind of thing but it sure doesnā€™t behave like that right now.
Iā€™m kinda bummed out XD

20

Idk about beta but on the ptr, my pally copy with wm on(higher stats)ā€¦ touch of light hit for 320 damageā€¦ with over 90k hp. 47% mastery 34% vers.