Paladin changes

Classes Paladin
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Man, I take off one day, just one day to hang out with friends in PA and this happens…

PALADIN

Hero Talents
    Herald of the Sun (Holy/Retribution)
        Sun’s Avatar now contributes 50% of its healing to Beacon of Light (was 100%).
        Sun’s Avatar healing decreased by 20%.
        Eternal Flame periodic healing decreased by 20%.
        Dawnlight now contributes 50% of its healing to Beacon of Light (was 100%).
        Luminosity now increases the critical strike rate of Holy Shock and Light of Dawn by 5% (was 10%).
        Gleaming Rays now increases the healing of your Holy Power spenders by 6% (was 10%).
    Templar (Retribution/Protection)
        Undisputed Ruling now grants 12% Haste for 6 seconds after casting Hammer of Light (was 15% Haste).
        Empyrean Hammer damage reduced by 5%.
        Cries of Redemption now deals 80% of the damage to nearby enemies on Empyrean Hammer critical strikes (was 60%).
        Retribution
            Sacrosanct Crusade effectiveness reduced by 25%.
Holy
    Holy Light’s healing decreased by 20%.
    Imbued Infusions now reduces the cooldown of Holy Shock by 1 second (was 2 seconds).
Retribution
    Crusader Aura talent is no longer granted by default in the Class tree for Retribution.
    Greater Judgment talent is now granted by default in the Class tree for Retribution.
    Consecrated Blade is no longer a talent and now learned at level 11.
    New Talent: Holy Flames – Divine Storm deals 10% increased damage and when it hits an enemy affected by your Expurgation, it spreads the effect to up to 4 targets hit. You deal 3% increased Holy damage to targets burning from your Expurgation.
    Justicar’s Vengeance now heals for 3% of maximum health (was 5%).
    Blessed Champion is now a 1-point talent (was 2).
    The following talents are now 2 points (was 1):
        Heart of the Crusader
        Zealot’s Fervor
    Holy Flames is now in a choice node with Blade of Vengeance.
    Empyrean Legacy moved to where Vanguard of Justice was on the talent tree.
    Vanguard of Justice has been removed.

It seems they gave us the SERIOUS nerf bat upside our heads…

What say you, my fellow Warriors of the Light. I always value your inputs on these things.

Thoughts???

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As far as HPal is concerned, things will need to be tested. Blizzard released a post saying they want to move away from bursty heals to a more sustained healing profile by lowering the effectiveness of percentage based heals and increasing hybrid and single target heals…then proceeded to nerf every heal component of HotS and Holy Light and only buffed Holy Prism.

I’m hoping there’s more coming next week but right now it’s a bit…uh…worrying. And not just for hpal, their post reads like another DF blanket healer nerf which will just cause everyone to stop healing again.

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I get the intention but I don’t trust what they are doing. I’ll never get over the “make mana matter” nonsense that literally everyone hated. I wouldn’t mind changes starting out bad if they were faster to fix, but it don’t be like that.

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For Ret specifically

Herald and Templar changes are kind of W/E.
% adjustment were to be expected and Sacrosanct Crusade was genuinely too strong

Holy flames seems to be doing what BoV does but with extra step?
It’s seems better on cleave fight than full AoE and it also allow for some kind of priority damage when taken in concert with Emp Legacy but 1 FV every 20 sec for priority is hardly priority damage.
And so for those reason I also feel like it’s meat to come as a package with JJE.

Priority damage in cleave/AoE situation is something we didn’t really have and I feel like this is now an option to use beside the dichotomy of ST/AoE we were stuck into.
That being said, JJE proc rate is 3 PPM soo, I don’t know to what extend that really helps us also considering the 20sec CD on Emp legacy.
Seems few and far between to be reliable on a target that needs to die.

Nonetheless its refreshing to see this node be changed.

I think removing VoJ and placing Emp Legacy there makes sense.

JV nerf… I don’t… You guys are beating a dead horse…
Stop…

Class tree changes for Ret, very nice to see that Greater Judgement is the given point instead of the useless aura.

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The Class tree is just trolling at this point. I’m sure it will eventually get updated in a .1 patch but this is not Blizzard quality work.

From a Mythic+ perspective, it’s cool. But from a PvP perspective this is really annoying. Forcing AOE in your ST rotation is never good without the option to opt out.

It’ll just break CC, force a more zugzug mentality, and removes our ability to counter things like Shadowmeld.

Looking at WoW as a whole, and not strictly a PvE game, because Stealth exists this shouldn’t be baseline.

Imo, this would have been much better as a choice node with Sanctify, and Vanguard’s Momentum get removed or redesigned to slow down HP generation.

Completely axe Retribution Aura and Crusader’s Reprieve, but continue to keep this around. Again, either it’s just trolling at this point or just an inside joke we aren’t made aware of.

This talent is pretty cool, but Divine Storm is getting a lot of modifier talents. And it further pushes the HotS = AoE, Templar = ST problem.

  • Empyrean Legacy
  • Empyrean Power
  • Judge, Jury and Executioner
  • Inquisitor’s Ire
  • Holy Flames
  • Blades of Vengeance
  • Sanctify

Idk how to explain it, but I wish someone could organize and design these talents a little bit better so it felt like a playstyle choice, and less like a mess of talent tree nodes scattered across the tree.

The tree feels like it lacks direction, and Divine Hammer, Executioner’s Will, Divine Auxiliary, and even the position of WoA just feels very forced. Like it’s just a bunch of half baked ideas. =/

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I don’t think so. I still think BoV is the superior choice by a good percentage. I can’t see myself giving up BoV for the new Holy Flame, especially since it’s hardcapped at 5 targets.

Yeah, every 20 seconds just isn’t worth it.

I would have rather seen Emp Power since it’s a good shot we’ll be using Templar Strikes with its serious damage.

Yeah, I saw that and said “WTF???” No one, NO ONE, NO ONE in the multiverse uses that thing. And you’re gonna nerf it more??? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Trash changes.

Sacrosanct crusade was the only thing that put templar almost on par with herald in terms of sustain.

We are back once again to herald being the pick for pvp because it literally does everything for you.

GG yet another season 1 of ret being the lowests sustain melee in the game meanwhile warriors dks ferals dhs even monks co tinue to outsustain ret in pvp.

Oh and btw they still havent addresed divine protection being a 10% wall in pvp LMFAO. What a joke this was meant to be better than DF yet uts getting worse. At this pace ita getting harder to be excited about anything, guess I cant play this game forever

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The nerf was warranted. Heralds healing is all passive healing with no input from the player.

We were above and beyond what other specs could do and nerfing passive healing is a great way to prevent the issues the spec has historically had in the past (ie. The rest of toolkit sucks).

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It says it spreads it up to 4 target hits, it doesn’t specify that it can’t spread it to different ones after the initial 4 or that it would only refresh on those 4.

It really depends on the pulls you’re gonna have in front of you.

If it’s always 5-7 mobs, maybe even 8, then I think you might ask yourself if you would take this package.
And then the Hero spec would heavily influence that choice too.

It’s not as cut and dry on AoE as Emp Legacy was and it’s a 3% damage increase on ST compared to BoV which gives nothing in ST.

With this we can increase our ST output without sacrificing too much on AoE.

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Yeah, agreed.

I’m under the assumption that it’s hard capped. Otherwise, it probably would have stated something like “It deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets” like BoV does.

A fair enough analysis. 5-7, mmmaybe :thinking:—but I think at 8 and above, BoV would probably be the better choice.

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vanguard of justice was actually a cool fun talent in the last iteration before they removed it
that divine storm was beefy when paired with inquisitor’s ire and empyrean legacy

sad times.

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Wait, what??? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Ummm, it’s still there…

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'tis my bad i meant vanguard of justice
gonna edit me post

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Ahhhh, okay.

I agree, VoJ was looking pretty rad. I’m sorry to see it go.

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Inquisitors ire and empyrean legacy should be merged into one. Vanguard of justice was basically part three of the equation. Not much was lost but they could have merge the three and be done with it.

Empyrean legacy and inquisitors ire merged into one for the on demmand once every 20 seconds ds. Id suggest adding a 20s cd to divine storm too
, maybe a range increase

Vs

empyrean power for when you have high uptime for the constant ds procs, might be good with divine purpose.

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these are great changes overal for ret pve

holy flame is the best of the new changes

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You really think so, huh?

Over Blade of Vengeance?

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One of the recurring criticism of current Ret was the binary choice between ST and AoE.

Many choice we made for a profile meant completly forgoing the other.

Holy Flame is a much better hybrid than Empyrean Legacy was and in that regard, I think this is a major improvement on what we had.

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Fair enough.

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ya honestly, theres alot of good changes this beta patch, some concerns like TS being overtuned but ya. overal positive

blade of veng is probably our aoe pick while holy flame is our st/cleave pick. the 3% damage boost is applied on expurg, not attached to DS. basically its a talent that does both st and cleave/aoe instead of being aoe or st only like alot of our nodes

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