I’m sorry you can only compete with 20 other people at you item level because you can’t progress heroic or do high enough keys to max your vault until the month before the season ends. You’re a gold medalist in flag football, congratulations!
Man this isn’t a discussion about previous raid tier, this is a discussion about current. Formweaving is bad for fluidity and regardless of what your opinion on “who will be able to optimize it” a lot of people will attempt to use it based on what top players use. New players to class/spec/game look at top builds with top damage and will use whatever it says, even if they cannot fully optimize it. This overall leads to lower dps, and instead of swapping to an easier talent set up they will continue to use the “top” set up.
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Correct, shapeshifting for damage is bad and degenerate and will likely be fixed by blizzard before it’s an issue. Still important to call it out and bring awareness to it.
One common suggestion I’ve seen for the talent is to swap to tertiary from secondary stats. So instead of granting Vers, Mastery, Crit, and Haste, swapping forms can grant Avoidance, Leech, Movement speed, and healing taken/done.
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Not up to Blizzard to make sure people are capable of critical or thinking for themselves.
I mean, lions strength vs bloodtalons exists and its the same situation, yet no one is advocating for the removal of one or the other based on who can utilize it or not.
Goes to exactly what ive said before about critical thinking and thinking for ones self. Leaving it in (yes i know its been changes already) would be a good lesson for that.
This would still have the same problem as encouraging shapeshifting multiple times a fight based on what’s happening in the encounter.
Swap for leech when low on health
Swap for avoidance during aoe phases
Etc
Etc
I thought you were fine with shapeshifting for utility? Are you actually just being contrarian for a bit or are you really this dense?
There’s a difference between using a talent reactively as the encounter demands based on different damage intake profiles and using shifting constant for a DPS gain.
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Theres not.
The complaint is people arent wanting to be shifting constantly.
“Shifting isnt fun”. Then everyone turns around and suggests to keep shifting but take it off of throughput.
Do you want shifting or not?
Im fine for leaving the talent as it was due to shifting happening from utility. Could just add a “cant occur more than once every 60 seconds” tag to the talent.
Leave the nerf to Sunfire to further push the idea that trying to time shapeshifting for throughput isn’t the desired design
Lycara’s Meditation just… it needs to go. First of all, why yet another mandatory talent so deep into the class tree? Lycara 1 and Circle of Wild/Heaven weren’t enough?
It does create a degenerate gameplay to swap to a form you’re not fitted just for the bonus. I thought they didn’t want Druids to do that anymore.
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Just fact checking this because its an extremely big lie, the buff maxed out on janurary 21st
you had 18% damage increase they only had a 4.5% increases on november 13th. thats a 13.5% increase in damage and you barely beat them so they were in fact out performing you 
.
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Whatever it maxed out on, it’s irrelevant (i thought the buff was an every week thing, like I said, i barely raided so I’m not even sure what my buff was), because this wasn’t a DPS comparison. The fact you’re not understanding that means you probably shouldn’t be interjecting yourself into the conversation.
Even with him having an 18% buff (which is irrelevant when comparing), he’s still averaging about 50% parses on farm mode for his ilvl (which is max, or well, 638 vs the 639).
About 20+ times in an encounter (kills), you’d think you’d be able to do better than that. No matter what way you cut it, we perform about the same level while i’ve got 75% less experience in the raid than him.
He wanted to take a dig at me for my parses when I mentioned that most people would be unable to utilize the talent for throughput (i lumped myself in that group) because he took it personally. Then when we go digging, we find out he’s really not any better.
PS I don’t raid full time nor is this my main.
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No I took a dig at you because you decided this was all a skill issue and mentioned parses first. You’re also grasping at straws pretending that ilvl parses mean anything when they do not. You’re bad and have bad opinions. It’s okay, we all know.
These are situational talents and high level players know the difference of when to take one or the other. Often times you will be fighting groups that don’t live long enough to build combo points and have full threshold of an empowered rip, vs having the 15% damage pre-baked so you can do a 2 combo point primal wrath into BruSlash fero bites.
You just mentioned critical thinking, you’d have to use critical thinking to understand when exactly to shapeshift to fully utilize each form. On one hand, you can give players benefit of the doubt that they will be able to understand what the talent does, and on the other hand you have to see if the player understands that leech and avoidance do not directly impact damage gameplay and only increases survivability. Most often players do not even use their basic toolkit of defensives such as barkskin or survival instincts, and you’re expecting them to use critical thinking to shift into bear form for a dps or survivability increase.
Many people also don’t realize that parses flex based on how quickly each phase of the fight goes on, or the entire encounter. If you have Jujitsu ww, one punch warrior, god of the light paladin. blaster beast master in your group more than likely you aren’t going to get that extra dps on adds and the boss will probably die before you even get berserk back. I noticed I actually parse better at lower ilvls simply due to the fact that most people outgear each encounter early on in the season.
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Lol it’s akin to the same banish dps mechanic for outlaw rogues
Clunky as all fk
2 Likes
Bearweaving is now a 1.9% DPS gain. Same problem as owlweaving, please fix blizz
2 Likes
It is. If you’re parsing 50%, you’ll never be able to utilize the talent, and therefor it doesn’t concern you.
Are you fighting open world mobs??
Either way, you still get more out Bloodtalons even in that scenario as you can set up BT and get your 3 charges going into another pack. So long as you maintain 60-70% of your finishers with BT, BT > LS.
I’m not expecting it at all. Which is exactly why i’ve mentioned more than one time that the whole “weaving” only pertains to a handful of Ferals (think I mentioned maybe HoF level play which holds what, like 40 Ferals?)
Blud is still yapping about parses despite nearly getting world last aotc :icant:
I just don’t get the hill your dying on. Even if we go with your argument that the weaving gain only matters for the 40 hof ferals (not a real figure either btw), those ferals don’t like to weave for dps. People under that don’t like to weave for dps either. So what’s the point of arguing for it’s continued existence save for being able to continue your 20k forum post streak from the bench?
Because the argument of: well i don’t find that fun, isn’t a worthy argument at all. People dont find the slowed down energy regen fun either. Some people don’t like the bite heavy builds, yet they still exist. They’re options. You don’t have to choose them. That’s the thing about options.
Also, the content isn’t teetering on the verge of whether you choose a 1.9% ST gain when fully utilized, or not.
That’s because if you’re struggling with your normal rotations, worrying about something as complex as utilizing the perfect times to shapeshift isn’t even in the cards for ya.
Also, i’m sorry you’re so familiar with being benched that you have to project it onto others. I’m sure there’s support groups out there for you to help you overcome those points in your life
No, I’m fighting my teammates who are ret paladins and fury warriors going god mode and hyperblasting every trash pack and then calling me dog turds because my rip ticked 1 time. Sometimes people will look at your builds when you’re in a raid and say “why are you playing this over this” and when you give the reply “this is more comfortable for me and I am able to do more damage this way” they say “I knew all feral druids were bad you give them a worse name” despite said feral druid doing more dps than the flamer.
But really the dps loss is minimal between LS and BT, and feral guides often mention to take LS if you make a lot of mistakes with BT (over-writing a TF+BT rip with a non buffed one). I personally take BT because it feels wrong to not have the little buff up when I press rake thrash shred.
PS My critical thinking goes more toward survival than to dps gains. Have to keep our health above zero while reducing the enemies health to zero, or whatever the tip is.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong but doesn’t this make the talent useless for owlweaving resto druids as well? That’s probably the only spec that actually would have liked this talent.
Almost like the talent is completely useless and should just be removed
1 Like