Hey guys I’m logging on here to give my opinion and I apologize if this has been spoken before I never use these forums. Ever since Battle of Dazaralor where I mained rogue I noticed an imbalance in a trait known as Overwhelming power. Let’s start with the first problem the trait is absolutely busted no other trait in that row even remotely compares to it and if possible classes would choose this trait over a GOOD trait from the first two rows. Secondly is a personal reason but I feel since its a proc based mini lust I feel it brings another unwanted RNG aspect and VASTLY changes your damage from pull to pull which IMO someone pressing the same buttons shouldnt be doing 10k+ dps higher based on RNG. Finally the biggest reason I think this trait is bad for the game is that any class with a healer/tank offspec is severely punished DPS wise compared to triple DPS specs. The reasoning for this is because multiple azerite pieces that say a rogue would have overwelming power a windwalker monk would have some dog trait like bulwark of the masses which is completely useless from a dps standpoint. Not saying this would put these classes in the spot they need to be to be competitive with dmg/raid utility of DH Rogue but it would help. Classes like mage/rogue can get triple overwelming power where as a class like WW monk to my knowledge can only get off one piece currently with ideal outer traits. I feel either removing this trait or giving hybrid classes more access to it would help bring classes currently struggling and help bring them up to speed.
i agree entirely
in case anyone misses the point
i’m sure ops aware bulwark is last tier and he meant like woundbinder
This would be more of a problem if the numbers were as massive as you claim. They are not.
A single stack of overwhelming power is, on average, roughly a 500-600 dps increase in single-target across the various classes/specs; it is a bit more or less depending on the spec. This makes it the best of its row in the majority of cases, but not absolutely busted as you claim.
That being said, it procs often enough that you will usually have had it up for some portion of a fight, so long as it is not over in a matter of seconds.
Tl;dr: Overwhelming power is quite strong but it is not even remotely near to as good as you’re suggesting.
I think adding talents to gear was a mistake.
Ayup. This. Even based on sims that assume perfect uptime it’s not better than main trait rows, and in reality it won’t have the level of uptime it does in sims. Just due to the nature of how the trait works.
So, yeah, as he said, usually a top pick in its own row/tier/whatever, but that’s it.
Uh huh… You have no proper rebuttal so you resort to blatant idiocy as a response.
I do raid, actually, just not on this character. In fact, I carry the hell out of the dps for my group because alliance is generally trash and I’d be horde if not for my friends here.
And it’s not my fault dps on ally side can’t seem to follow basic routes. 
Anyway, check your numbers again, friend. You are exaggerating. It generally only sims as a 1-2k dps increase in single-target when you have 3 stacks of it. Which is significant, but not to the extent you were claiming.
You do keys actively on a 444 warrior yet your so called “main” you raid on isnt linked to your IO
Imagine thinking a trait that can give you over 1000+ haste on an rng proc with potentially ridiculous uptime given rng isnt broken. Instead of braindead looking at blood mallet sims why dont you actually review a log of a rank 1 parse of someone using x3 op and look at uptime/haste given
Why? Person gives you a thought out response, gives details, partially agrees… and you rage on them and turn to unnecessary insults? I’m all for insults, sure, those can be great, but use them in a way that makes sense.
The reason I don’t raid on the warrior is because my group was full up on tanks and I do not like warrior dps. I raid on a mage.
When simming my own character, it sims at 1.8k over the other traits available on the gear. It would be more or less powerful depending on your spec. I’m not denying that it is good, I am denying that it is broken and stating that 10k is an exaggeration in the majority of cases.
You need to learn how to have a discussion without tossing random insults at people for no reason.
2k dps on an inner ring sharing the same row as a trait that gives you like 75 main stat yup not broken at all. Man you’re a prot warrior running anima and youre questioning why you are getting flamed for acting like you know what you’re talking about
2k is not 10k. I agreed with you that it was strong. I said it wasn’t absurdly broken to the degree you were initially claiming is all. You’re just upset because your hyperbole got called out for what it is.
As for the rest… Of course, Visions of Perfection is better; I am well aware. Bonus points if you can tell me why without looking it up. Anyway, go tell my healer that he’s a jackass for consistently asking me to use anima instead.
Because I would agree with you. 
Man do you not read what I’m saying that its proc based can you stop looking at blood mallet as a law of life and realize that this has infinite proc chance mini lust uptime
I’m not looking at blood mallet and I’m starting to think you aren’t reading. Expecting that the buff is going to have a super high uptime in the majority of cases is unrealistic.
It theoretically could but it generally will not in practice.
Quite frankly, there’s a lot wrong with the azerite system and the power levels of individual traits within it. I did not deny that. Like I have said multiple times whilst trying to remain civil with you, it simply is not as broken as you claim in the majority of cases.
Your argument was “strong not broken” on an Inner trait DESIGNED to be less impactful than a outer trait but many classes drop 10 ilvls for it solely because it has overwhelming power
He said 10k dps more [on opener]. Not overall. If you proc OP in opener vs someone who doesn’t with the same gear and same rotation, you do 10k dps more than them for the window. If you proc [Unstable flames, gutripper, heed, etc.], it’s nowhere near as much, maybe only a 1k dps max different during lust, and that’s highballing.
Edit: by the end of a patchwerk-style 5 minute fight, someone who procs op on average 1 time per minute vs someone who doesnt have it will have a net dps gain of anywhere from 1-3k dps depending on class. Assuming an average player does 40k dps, this is equal to 2.5-7.5% dps gain over a 5 minute single-target fight. Assuming a higher-end player, at 50k dps, this is equal to 2%-6% dps gain over the same interval.
3 OPs on 450 azerite is ~ 30haste X 25 stacks X 3 pieces => 2250 haste on a proc that decays by ~30 per second X 3 pieces, so each proc assuming you avoid damage taken is an average of 1125 haste over the duration. If you equate 1125 haste to gems, that’s equal to 22 sockets worth of gems, for an inner row trait that is an RNG-based proc. Each socket on a piece of gear (on average, for all classes) is 5 ilvl per socket. So basically, you can equate a triple stacked, procced Overwhelming Power to 110 ilvls worth of gear, or around 110/16 ilvl average => 7ilvl increase from having this trait over other traits. Obviously, it is not procced all the time so if you assuming a 30% uptime, which is pretty much average if you look at warcraftlogs or sims, thats 7*.3 ~= 2.5 overall ilvl gain from triple OP. If you can defend that Overwhelming Power is not broken after this in-depth analysis and comparison, I don’t think you are open to understanding how the game works at its core.
Edit: note this is highly averaged out and doesn’t take into account classes that have very small, high dps windows like fire mage or ww monk, etc.
We dont usually agree on much but i think that can be expanded to azerite gear was a mistake.
Overwhelming power is in the 3rd tier of traits. Bulwark of the masses is in the 4th tier. How are the two related beyond being azerite traits? They aren’t even on the same tier. Use a better example next time please =)
Sure gutripper unstable flames heed my call on my way elemental whirl earth link lifespped azerite globules blood siphon blessed portents concentrated mending woundbinder savior bracing chill
I also agree that OP is… well, OP and needs to be brought in line so people don’t feel bad when they don’t get it. It doesn’t even do much in terms of changing your playstyle. It’s simply “get it”.
This is an important distinction to make, for certain. If he said this, my apologies for overlooking it. I am carrying multiple conversations and working at the same time.
I was refuting the specific number given with respect to the impact on the overall dps, not the burst.
This is what I have been hitting at. Thank you. I just didn’t have time to do the math.
6% of 50k is 3,000. Which I did state, for overall, that it roughly simmed an average of 1-2k for 3 stacks but that it varied between specs, which has been roughly accurate based on everything I have seen and tested. I may have lowballed it a bit for some specs.
The specific character I simmed sims at 1.8k higher using it over the others on patchwerk but that too could vary a bit.
Again, I never claimed it wasn’t strong.
Re-reading your OP, we are largely in agreement. Especially regarding the disdain for rng impacting performance to such an extent.
We were merely arguing specific numerical values whilst evidently using conflicting metrics.
I think we are too hung up on the specific terminology of “strong” versus “broken” because it is ultimately irrelevant and nothing but semantics.