I don’t have a problem with overgeared players, being around sometimes. It’s when they can indefinitely destroy teams single-handedly that I have a problem. And BGs from 10 to 60 have this problem. I just wanted to suggest some action be taken, because I think it’s discouraging pvp in an expansion that already has a a gear gap problem.
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i feel the same about players on my team with gear from 10 levels ago.
still rocking those boots you got at level 25 in a level 59 bg? enjoy the gy.
maybe leveling bgs need a minimum ilvl requirement.
3 Likes
What are “entry level bgs”?
Leveling BGs are just a nightmare in general right now. Specs are way out of tune and partysyncing just kills it for the casual user. Twinking also furthers the divide but blizz really doesn’t consider WoW a PvP game so don’t expect changes anytime soon.
Best bet is hit the AH when you enter a new bracket and buy some catch-up gear. Note that some specs also don’t really become viable until late in the game (eg. early stage feral) whereas others are pretty much fully kitted and pumping early (all hunter specs) so there are a lot of matchups that no amount of gear will get you past.
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I would just recommend not playing anything but 51-59. It’s all unbalanced to some degree but this bracket is the closest to a semblance of balance. Anything below that and you’re going to get destroyed by hunters, and I’ve heard fury warriors are insane at low levels.
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there was a huge change to crafting in shadowlands that allows players to make scaled versions of most items up to bfa. with old recipes some have slots and some have active set bonuses and they can be remade every 5 levels. there is no excuse for having outdated gear on alts except for people being complacent.
it’s impossible to keep your gear at an average for your level by relying on drops from pvp satchels. gear alts for bgs or get beat by those who do.
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Why do they have to be alts? What about casual mains?
The goal is to increase subs and their duration. If your first time in PvP (and let’s be clear, the adventure guide directs them to queue and rewards them Exp for doing so) you get relentlessly smashed by aimed shotting twinks and fully specced alts, what are the chances you ever go back? Half the game is soured for you.
Even with alts; if BGs reward exp, your casual gear should at least make you moderately competitive. You don’t need to min-max in pve while leveling do you?
Scaling is off. Specs are off. Balancing needs to happen.
4 Likes
new players are going to lose regardless of gear. i have 15 years of game knowledge in my back pocket. even with similar gear im going to smash a new player so please stop using gear as a scapegoat.
why cant players,both new and old alike, use the random dungeon finder until level 15?
because players with empty slots are a detriment to a dungeon group. it should be the same with battlegrounds.
Actually scaling has the lowest level players in instances most often doing the most damage and healing. Have you tried leveling recently? The level 15 monk is pulling 3k dps. You can actually queue specific dungeons right at level 10 if you want to, same with BGs.
As for gear as a scapegoat, it’s only one aspect of the problem and it is a problem. You flat-out admitted it was a problem by demanding players upgrade all their gear before even setting foot in a BG:
“gear alts for bgs or get beat by those who do”
Sounds a lot like “without bis gear you have no chance to win” to me. Again, you said this, not me.
You also recognized that current gear catchup systems are lacking in providing the itemization to be effective:
“it’s impossible to keep your gear at an average for your level by relying on drops from pvp satchels.”
Again, your words. Sounds like maybe we do agree that changes need to be made.
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I think it should come down to what is easiest and costs the least amount of resources for Blizzard. When it comes down to non-endgame brackets; if it is easier for Blizzard to create templates for the classes/specs in each bracket with no advantage power % increases, then that is what Blizzard should implement (whilst keeping gear at endgame [no rating requirement for fairness]).
I do mean a flat template for each bracket; class balance should be determined at endgame by Blizzard. The lower brackets were always semi-broken (even more so when twinking was a thing), but that does not mean random battlegrounds are not worth having a good time in while leveling.
I can also admit and attest to level 60 party syncing being a tad to powerful. Having templates could really help provide a security on the lower brackets for all while leveling or joining friends.
how has it become bad to gear up before you pvp?
You could play a Hunter in full cloth Int gear and still be viable in lower BGS.
Read above and then make a post about gear.
What is holding anyone back from gearing up in the lower brackets? Gating?
A little goes a long way.
It hasn’t, but you also shouldn’t need to minmax just to try casual/random BGs out. Look at the 51-59 bracket. If you walk into there with BFA blues on (approx. 50ilvl) you will have… 8k health and walk into a sea of people with… 20-25k (many 60 sync people, others twinks, others BFA M+ people) and sitting at 135ilvl or so. That’s 3x the power creep.
Again though, gear is only one part. Spec balancing makes everything 100x worse. You get a twinked out MM Hunter and he will run 20-40kbs easy without breaking a sweat. Even a naked one will likely beat most geared specs pretty much the entire way from 10-60. You have disc priests topping dmg meters and all kinds of wacky stuff.
Some things you can never really fix without removing them - partysync for example will always allow people to at minimum group with other like-minded and most-often PVP-familiar people and even go as far as let you pick your spec composition and offer you voice comms. Without removing it entirely, there’s no easy way to balance that system and maybe it shouldn’t exist in random BGs.
Other things you can fix with tweaks. You can reduce dmg on specs. You can move spec spells earlier or later on the leveling path. You can change enchants and generally balance player engagement to be closer to each other.
And I’m not even against twinking or minmaxing - I had a really fun time with an old 29 rogue in Vanilla that I still think about from time to time. But the power creep from casual greens/blues to fully kitted BIS monster is way too high, and some specs are just not fun to play against for anyone.
2 Likes
That is how the game has been designed, this is supposed to happen.
Which could have been easily adjusted, Relic of the Past, Higher ilvl BOES at 51.
Wait til 56 and buy some cheap and cheerful ilvl 129 greens ilvl, AH is flooded with these.
Ask why would they do this? To stop/slow power leveling? For easy access to grind Honor at 60 (needing 100k) while Sync? Lots of reasons.
Yeah wasn’t his solution to craft scaling BFA gear? I mean that seems counter intuitive. If I was a fresh wow player and jumped into BGS, how would I have the resources in place to craft expansion old gear?
Honestly this level squish business has made everything much worse imo… Before it was pretty easy to get in bgs for each bracket (for the most part)… Now you gotta specifically look up where decent stuff drops or know about things like someone mentioned (scaling BFA crafted gear)… Its really bad and I kind of doubting pvp will ever recover at this point… The last good pvp expac was WoD, then we had templates which were implemented poorly, the crappy BFA experience and then SL which just exacerbated ALL of the problems. If they miss the mark next expansion I think its safe to say its over for me. /rant over.
new players have NEVER been catered to in low level bgs. ever. like never ever even one time. stop using them as an excuse for veteran players doing nothing but clicking join bg from 10-60.
You lost me here. Thotbot says hello. Wowhead says whatsup!!!
There are more resources than ever! to figure out how to proceed in this game than ever before. Building a successful character in an MMO.
Creating a viable character has Never been this streamlined/accessible than now.
Gear scales to our level+
Lower brackets are in a really safe spot in these areas, without any form of gating holding us back.
Class/Spec tuning is a whole other issue, indeed. Broken/Busted even.
A meme at this point.
This is a good example, new players will be much more involved in learning how things work. And doing it, this is how video games work.
But! but! how can I get boots at level 51! None dropped for me since level 21.
From a dedicated player…
i put this post before as a topic itself but could be posted here
I think this has been suggested or semi-suggested before but i would like to see if @WoWdevteam will implement something like this. in other games that have pvp they have multiple tiers of que-ing for the pvp content and i would love to see this change in the game. there could just be 3 different tiers of que-ing for pvp.
- regular random battle ground / epic battlegrounds as it is now no change needed other then maybe changing the rewards a little bit (see below).
- equalized ilvl random battlegrounds / epic battlegrounds where everyones ilvl is equalized to a certain range where everyone is within 10 ilvl differences (so gear helps but not have huge differences in what peoples gear would give) these rewards would be higher than regular random battlegrounds as the difference in gear from top geared players to just starting would be similar.)
- rated battlegrounds how they are and rewards either increased or stay the same depending on how the rewards for equalized would turn out.
for reg random bg’s make the honor rewards from playing greater for both loosing and wining but reduce conquest for wins as gear can play a heavy change in how its played or leave it as is for conquest. whereas in the equalized bg’s you could increase the rewards for conquest to be higher but still alot less than the rated bg rewards would be but still allow newer players to start getting decent gear anyways honor could be same or more from this mode too because it would show more skill than regular random battlegrounds for the player base. Finally rated bg’s should give the highest rewards for both honor and conquest as they are meant to be the pinnacle for pvp battlegrounds wise.
In low level bgs? cmon man get a grip, it changes every expansion when they squish these things, all the previous knowledge I had of twinking/best in slot for leveling is basically useless… I need to RELEARN everything each expansion JUST to level in a battle ground? do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? I need to approach my alts in the same fashion I would my main character and treat it like im raiding heroic or mythic tier JUST to level in a bg without being chastised or incredibly out scaled?
For example, look at my rocket-boots xtreme… I had them before squish at the first possible chance I could get just because I enjoy playing my characters to that level… Now it doesn’t even increase the speed a significant amount, it gives you a 40% movement speed buff for 2 seconds as opposed to the 300% it gave before, so I need a PHD in WoW just to battle ground??? LOL dude get real, only in the last 2 expansions has it become completely convoluted to pvp… I remember a few expansions ago when you could use all kinds of old school vanilla weapons in low level bgs because they scaled (beginning of bfa I think?) and they had tier lists of what procs were amazing etc, the point im tryin to make is you shouldn’t need to relearn EVERYTHING EACH expansion just to have fun in low level bgs… It’s not like im locking my exp and fighting other twinks and I most certainly shouldn’t be outclassed because I didn’t do enough research to do the LOWEST possible form of pvp.
Correct.
Always helps.
Not everything, but keeping up to date will help.
Looks like you are having issues with the lowest form of PVP then.
It is Friday, these were freebies.
Depth and Mystery are great assets to any game imo.
When Rex does it, we are all astounded right?