Outlaw vs Assasination Sim Questions

Classes Rogue
1

I’m hoping someone can help me out here.

I’ve been unable to get Assassination Rogue to come close with sims and in-game dps to my Outlaw Rogue I know gear is a big consideration and I’ve gone out of my way to get BIS Azerite for both specs etc. The Outlaw spec is simming around 16.5K Dps with simulationcraft set to stock settings. I’ve got a bunch of azerite and I’ve reforged it over and over with all the best traits for Assassination. Both specs have two 370 weapons etc. I can’t get Assassination to sim any closer than around 15.5k to 16.5K for Outlaw. I’ve been switching between Archive of Titans and laser but laser seems to sim higher in both Outlaw and Assassination specs

I’m running 2 Lattice Daggers in Assassination and 1 370 Sword and 1 370 Fist weapon in Outlaw.

Is this normal? I thought Assassination could sim higher especially on single target then Outlaw.

Any feedback would be great. Thanks

2

Sims should not be used as an expectation of dps. The value of a sim is not seeing what your dps should be, but how your dps changes when you change gear, or rotation, whatever. It should be used to evaluate changes, not as a benchmark for performance.

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3

Doesn’t answer my question. Thanks, but can someone address the actual questions.

Also it may not be what one should expect but it’s a pretty good indicator what you will see. I wasn’t asking why actual dps isn’t equaling the sim, it is in fact actually quite close for both specs in this situation I’m asking why Outlaw does more DPS in Sims and in actual raids by such a large degree for me. I thought Assassination could beat Outlaw on single target? Again, I have all the correct gear for both specs so is it just that Outlaw is that much better currently? I prefer playing Assassination but this much DPS difference is to much to ignore.

I’m just wondering if I have Azerite traits messed up or my info is old or what the issue might be for it? I’m using info I find on a mixture of website for which Azerite traits to run. which stats etc.

Perhaps Outlaw at my Ilvl is just that much better and I need more 385 gear for Assassination to do more dps.

Thanks to anyone who has any insight for me.

4

I raid with a few other rogues, some use Outlaw. Outlaw does better on fights that favor cleave abilities such Blade Flurry and Killing Spree. On fights that are mostly single target, Assassination pulls ahead.

I know most players use Simcraft/Raidbots. However, I highly recommend Ask Mr Robot. It has the the ability for batch processing where you can try various combinations of gear and talents. It also features a Best in Bags tool that will help optimize your gear.

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5

If you’re using Blood Mallet or Hero Damage you’ll notice that Laser Matrix and Archive +10 are the best traits right? But they really only gain their value with one instance of them, mainly because of the +10 stat gain. If you look at Laser Matrix and Archive individually you’ll see that it’s middle of the pack in terms of dps gained.

I would try simming with at least 1 double dose, or 1 shrouded (also try exsanguinate if going shrouded)

I’ve noticed 3 uldir traits don’t sim as well without at least 1 class specific trait.

6

Shadowslice’s response was actually pretty relevant to your question. :slight_smile:

It sounds like you may be focusing more intently than you need to on how the specific gear setups between your current Sass and Outlaw builds are simming. The sim itself, particularly if you’re using stock SimC settings, is not gonna give you a fully accurate sense of how you’ll perform in raids in general, or even within any specific raid fight. There’s huge variation in DPS potential from fight to fight due to unique raid mechanics, your role within the raid team, your skill at executing the DPS rotation for that spec and on that fight, the self-buffs and raid-buffs you have active, and just dumb luck.

So your Sass build simming slightly lower than your Outlaw build is not necessarily a surprise, and it’s also not immediate cause for any kind of alarm, since your mileage will vary hugely when you’re actually engaged in a boss fight.

Heck, Sass only outperforms Outlaw by around 3% in SimC’s basic sim results using iLevel ~384 gear in a Patchwerk-style fight. That’s a tiny difference, unlikely to even be noticeable given all the fight-to-fight variables I mentioned above. It’s entirely reasonable that such a difference could be offset by the specific mix of Azerite traits and stats on gear that you have in each of your spec-specific builds.

7

Thanks I’ll try that.

8

Looking at your current azerite set up for sin, it does look pretty bad. With some of the nerfs that hit Lazer Matrix is pretty bad, and only sims what it does because of the +10 buff. I would imagine that your outlaw has some snake eyes or deadshot? and your sin has none of the top tier pieces. Having Archine and double dose for sin is pretty optimal or shrouded suffication. You should try out raid bots since they have a top gear option that allows you to sim you bags and talents. Usually sin will top outlaw, but there is always circumstances where one will outperform the other.

9

So you think Laser is simming incorrectly? Yes, the laser seems to boost my dps in both specs when sims are run So perhaps that’s what is throwing me off. I do have a lot of azerite pieces so I’ll try mixing it up and doing more ingame dummy testing. I know the nerfs really messed up alot of the info out there that tells us what traits are best. I downloadeed Ask Mr Robot so will see what kind of info it give sme

So is Archive of the Titans one I want? Should I stack it? Run 2 Archive and one Shrouded? Thanks for the info. The Outlaw seems to do very well in raids. Usually 1 or 2 but I can’t get my assassin to stick in the top 5. This is on a variety of fights.

Thanks again for the input

10

Archive from what ive seen always outperformed Lazer, but sims are always best. I personally dont care for AskMrRobot, ive gotten conflicting results in the past. Personally i trust raidbots more, and they also have a top gear option where you can sim gear + talents. If you download the simc addon for wow you can get the string to copy into raidbots so the site can see all your gear in bags. and you can sim there. And in terms of what you want to aim for is pretty subjective because the best gear will depend on the fight and fight length at least for sin. Shrouded suffocation is pretty strong and makes the opener feel nice, but on longer fights double dose is better. Best bet is sim what you have and find the optimal setup. And just an fyi the rogue discord has some good discussion on setups for different fights. Also note that outlaw isnt terrible, and could pull ahead on fights such as zek’voz. But best of luck!

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11

If your armory is correct double quick navigation is hurting you. Put deadly on the offhand and you’ll see some improvement.

12

I think you aren’t considering assasination’s biggest strength. I think the reason it will pull ahead on single target is that your bleeds and poison will continue to do damage when you are out of melee range due to mechanics. The sims can’t account for that.

13

I always sim for a bit higher than what I’m able to actually pull off in-game. Assassination is my go-to spec, but I’m having fun with Outlaw.