Here’s a split-up link to the Outlaw rework I’ve been working on for the past week that removes Roll the Bones and work with the class fantasy for Outlaw. All my thoughts are in the spreadsheets because it would be too out of context to post out here and formatting a 9x10 grid for the spec tree in a single post is out of my league. I apologize in advanced that you have to edit the link together, but I don’t have the forum trust level yet to post links; I’ve only recently gotten access to the forums.
DO NOTE: It is a very, very, big read.
https ://docs google com/spreadsheets/d/1Z9AZT_f5Vj8QYdUp-C7gZiE5YmrMTHeqs9XMdbQCdZI/edit?usp=sharing
Remove the space after https, add a . between docs and google and com, and you should be set.
7 Likes
Very good changes.
I support. 100%
I am not sure about the PVP changes though because BlizZard has radio silence when it comes to Rogue PVP talent changes.
4 Likes
crazy how you removed rtb but still kept the actual rng in the spec AND stuff like ambidexterity, improved mg, for some reason added talents that result in giga antisynergy like path of the trickshot.
also crazy that you legit just made a second vanish for outlaw despite ya know…use vanish?. you legit just changed the name of vanish to killing intent. again if that what it takes for yall to like stealth abilities in outlaw then more power to you. its just silly
also crazy that you made two new capstones that dont really do anything. 20 crit chance on a spec that crits all the time
also you made outlaw defensive capability worse for no reason.
ultimately you made a cook to not use rtb despite it not being such a huge rng factor anymore without fundamentally changing anything about outlaws actual painpoints (new tier legit telling you to roll it on cd with new build showing you how much of it is not super relevant.). its kinda strange
1 Like
Crit is RNG too but it serves a proper purpose. RTB does not serve a purpose. Missing this nuanced point indicates you have a lot of learning to do.
For a spec like Outlaw Crit does not determine outcomes so that is positive RNG. RTB determines outcomes and that is why it is often a negative Outcome.
That is why you are not respected even in the Pally forums so why continue to think you are making a logical point in the Rogue forums?
6 Likes
Everything you’ve said makes no sense
Especially when there’s logs showing other wise
I like how we continue to pretend that rtb rng is bad while not even taking a look at SS and opp procs
SS and OP procs chances are nerfed because of RTB existence.
We are back to Legion level of design. Back to square one.
Not a mystery lol.
Energy regen is nerfed because Buried Treasure exists.
Baseline CDR is nerfed because of the existence of True Bearing.
Baseline OPP and SS procs are nerfed due to the existence of Skull and Crossbones.
4 Likes
ss and op procs were nerfed because of tier sets not because of rtb
energy was nerfed cause we have 90% uptime on adrenaline rush
baseline cdr was nerfed because of the addition of more impactful things into restlessblades.
if you actually paid attention to the spec and its actual issues you would have known that instead of dumping all its issues on rtb for some reason
DF Tier set is gone and we are knee deep into TWW expansion, so what is the excuse now?
Like the IRS you can not escape the RTB tax.
3 Likes
df tier maybe gone, but the spec hasnt seen a revert to that nerf. skull and bones wasnt even buffed to make up for this nerf for you to even say “rtb is the reason its still nerfed”
they legit didnt rebuff it b ack because they hate fun. not because rtb is doing it
you absolutely can escape the rtb tax and we have for years since the addition of CTO. if you played outlaw you would know that
blaming everythign wrong with the spec on rtb when its not the core issue. is like the wrong thing to do. rtb gets removed and the issues are stil lthere? what then? claim victory? because you hate outlaw and wanted to see one of its only visuals and unique aspects removed
They never will because the RTB tax is real.
Unless RTB goes good bye.
Wave goodbye to RTB.
3 Likes
you are a child, you dont even have the sack to press reply.
Ms Mafic says I have the grapefuits and that is good enough lol.
God Bless.
Have a blessed day!
Everything is balanced around Roll the Bones. Why do you think the developers keep propping it up every season?
Opportunity procs are a symptom of how bad the overall design of Outlaw is, where all the damage is funneled into Between the Eyes and Crackshot windows.
5 Likes
Quite literally buffed an entirely unviable talent going into this season to force the synergy of the 4 set so the tier set wouldn’t be a hard bomb. Even if the buffs themselves aren’t insane, the knock-on effects they create are massive. And the fact the roll quantity now also dictates our tier set working above 5 stacks when basically everyone else gets 10 stacks without the nonsense second RNG roll is just ridiculous to me.
5 full CP crackshots in a row with perfect buffs is 52.5 seconds of resets. Worst case scenario with bad rolls brings that down to 7 or 14 depending on if you’re in a Vanish window. True bearing alone hits our kit like a sledgehammer when it’s not rolled for long periods. Anyone arguing that RTB has no impact on damage is being disingenuous and intentionally semantic about it.
They don’t directly create a percentile increase. They fuel the ability for the baseline kit to function at all in the first place, which causes damage deficits from repeated slow periods when they fail.
3 Likes
The entire aim for the stealth ability usage is to move away from using Vanish (which should be our defensive) for 2 reasons (1 in each type of content). In PvE, it’s to avoid mobs resetting on us as we’re using our stealth kit. In the PvP side of things, Vanish now becomes our Counter Rogue CC and a primary defensive rather than Outlaw’s form of driving forth damage. With moving Vanish over to Float like a Butterfly (a node we naturally path through anyways), we reduce the amount of Vanishes we have access to (which is where all of our defensives are tied to anyways). There’s no True Bearing increasing the rate we get all our defensives back from 0.5s → 1s per combo point spent. Killing Intent is meant to take over in order for our stealth ability using builds to work. The other option is mentioned in the spreadsheet which is to convert Distract to essentially to do what Trickster’s Cloud Cover does except that we dont apply [Fazed] to the target, we just get access to our stealth abilities. If this is done, we just remove Killing Intent’s stealth ability access to help balance things out.
If you read over what I’ve said about Roll the Bones, the ability literally takes away what makes Combat good and gives it back to us in RNG. Outlaw with 5 or 6 buffs functions similarly if not exactly the same as Combat just with new abilities and talent choices. Roll the Bones has been nerfed after Shadowlands because of how strong rolling 5 buffs is. If you’ve looked at Rogue Sims, the sims assume we chain 5 buffs multiple times. There was an instance before the alpha of Dragonflight where Outlaw could run KIR and HO to maintain permanent Shadow Dance, 6 buff, and Adrenaline Rush because of how the talents were arranged at first.
1 Like
so its a world quest issue. just dont talent into crackshot? world mobs legit fall over if you breathe on them. delves i havent had mobs reset when i was with brann alive.
pvp idk and idc im sure theres valid reasons to move it away from pvp i cant comment on it.
again if making a vanish clone makes yall more comfy to vanish mechanics then more power to you, its just a silly th9ing to waste dev time on. especially since we had shadowdance for that very reason and people still threw a poopfit about “outlaw using stealth abilities”
alot of good outlaw players would disagree and frankly the data also disagrees with this statement.