Outlaw Rogue Does Not Feel Good To Play To Me

Community General Discussion
1

I have been trying to learn Outlaw Recently. I read a few guides and put on Hekelii to get some rotation help. The spec is high APM which I dont mind. But, the way the spec plays, it feels like doing 5 times the work to do 2/3 the damage.

There are a ton of interesting and thematic parts of the spec. And there are abilities that feel great to press. But, there are so many conditions to use abilities, and buffs to track that it loses the fun aspect. The random conditions of Roll the Bones are a pain. Depending on what buffs you get, do you re-roll or not. Or do you spend a 4 or 5 combo point. Or when you get these two or more buffs, do you use between the eyes, then vanish to reset between the eyes, then try to get off 2 more between the eyes before the extended stealth buff drops. Then when to dispatch. How to weave in Killing spree, Adrenaline Rush, Ghostly Strike ect.

I think what the issue that I have is that there is no intuitive nature to playing it. There isnt a flow to it, more so, a constant reacting to procs. But, not in an enhance shaman type of way. It is more so, reacting to random buffs, which create conditions, that make certain abilities best to use. But, those conditions randomly change. I also feel that the conditions around using vanish during combat to activate buffs, to make using an ability optimal does not feel good either. Having vanish usage be a significant portion of the Outlaw damage kit isnt thematic for the spec and does not at all feel good to use.

I know there are some who will champion the complexity of the spec. And say that all of the complex interactions and conditions make it feel rewarding when you do it well. But, as a damage spec, it doesnt do significantly more damage for being significantly more difficult to play. And it being target capped stinks.

I would like to see the roll the bones mechanic go, along with the Crackshot Mechanic requiring entering stealth and thus needing Subterfuge and Without a Trace on the class tree as mandatory for the spec.

Or at least design the spec similar to Havoc, to where if you dont enjoy the complexity of Momentum/Mover Build, you can play the no-mover build and do a little less dps, but be able to be more consistent with it.

This may just be a rant of shouting into the void, but for a spec that has such an interesting theme, and fun abilities to press, the actual act of playing it is so unintuitive and requires so much tracking of conditions and buffs makes it unfun.

12 Likes
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Just use 1 button and weave in your big CDs/kick 1 button is so good on rogue its stupid.

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I will say it took me some time until the required playstyle to actually maximize my Outlaw Rogue’s DPS clicked. Might have been about getting enough secondary stats for the flow to be right but I do enjoy my Outlaw Rogue. Just not as much as my Paladin.

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But, I can do much better DPS when I am using Hekelii for rotation help and pressing the buttons myself than with the one button. And the one button just gets so boring for me to play after a short time.

I am not going to bash the one button for people, but for me at least, it isnt enjoyable to spam one button.

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Energy-based classes are some of the worst candidates for SBA. But if you’re just goofing around on an alt, go wild.

5 Likes
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Ret may be simple, but holy crap is it fun to play. For me Ret and Fury Warrior just feel fun to play. The abilities feel good to press. The Specs are forgiving if you make an error or have to do a mechanic. The CDs and conditions of combat are easy to understand and changing what you are doing is fluid and easy.

The same for Assassination Rogue. It can be a little slow to play, but the spec itself has some complexity and more CD execution than Ret or Fury. But it is intuitive. It is pretty straight forward to see what is going on in combat and what your should press on your spec.

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Highlight Assist is what you want, not One Button. I feel like Outlaw would be shooting its self in the foot with One Button. Outlaw relies on CDR so much, it’s kind of unique in that way and having a longer GCD actively kills your CDR rate.

2 Likes
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One could say Outlaw already has that through Keep it Rolling vs Hidden Opportunity.

But I know what you mean. There are some off-putting features that can only be addressed by playing another spec or class. That seems to be a trait of classes with multiple damage specs.

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If you’re doing 5x the work to do 2/3 the damage you aren’t playing it right.

It is an incredibly difficult spec to master to keep putting in the work. The spec in its current state actually does ludicrous DPS when played right.

2 Likes
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I have tried the Highlight Assist. It is really bad for Outlaw. It does not prioritize between the eyes usage, nor does it incorporate Vanish to activate Subterfuge to allow multiple uses of Between the Eyes through the Crackshot Talent. Same with One Button. I do about 40% more DPS when I use Hekelii over highlighted assist, and 100% more than one button.

1 Like
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i mean its high apm and more interactive. so thats gonna feel like that and its frankly fine? not every spec needs to be a ret clone

with current tier and ho supercharger, you just press rtb on cd. only not pressing it if you have 5 buffs. its not really as big as your making it out to be

press on cd?

should be more than just 2 more bte? ambush bte ambush bte

when bte is not on cd?

press on cd? it feels like your trying to drown in a cup of water, you can macro gs to anything or everything so it can stop being ab utton. press killing spree on cd when your not in your vanish window

i mean its a reactive spec, you have to be reactive. outlaw has always been like that

its strange to see people blame rtb for just general rotational issues. it really doesnt have much to do ti your damage overal or rotation. or the removal of stealth based mechanics on a rogue. also considering that outlaw/combat always used vanish rotationally and this is just vanish instead of being a cd button its now a window

movers doesnt exist anymore, they removed it completely when they made felblade cancel vr. its all no movers and it lowkey stinks that such a cool divide and skill ceiling was removed and an entire playstyle was destroyed for people who enjoyed it (me being one of those people)

also it already has something like that with hidden op vs keep it rolling.

do you mind posting your rogues build? ?

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well mostly cause vanish is a cd, obr doesnt use cds

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Well if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, I guess just reroll.

Highlight assist doesn’t even work for me half the time. If you don’t press the first button it wants you to press, it just sits there stuck. Sometimes it will stop highlighting in the middle of my rotation, I will improvise a filler, then it will highlight after I’ve used whatever I picked. It’s not great and the Heli addon is obviously better.

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As I said. There will be people like you. Who will champion the spec. I get it. And your breakdown of when and how to use abilities either is you trying to be helpful, or you trying to simplify it. You say I am trying to drown in a glass of water, when I could say that you are saying that building a house is just putting up four walls and a roof.

As for saying combat/outlaw always revolved around Vanish, they did not. And combat rogue has not been a thing since 2015. So that one can be put to rest.

You are more than entitled to have your opinion on the spec. It just differs from mine. Neither of us is right or wrong.

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Why you say this? They have so much downtime that the CD increase barely effects anything

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lmao outlaw having downtime?

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I was playing assassin personally. Not very informed on rogue as I quit the class after MoP. (Was my main in the early days)

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the only rogue spec that has anything resembling downtime is probably sub when it’s pooling for burst windows
outlaw basically has no free gcds
assassination shouldn’t either if it’s being played properly
the obr is incredibly damaging for rogue in general and shouldn’t be a substitute for anything beyond goofing off on alts

i stand corrected!
noted

1 Like
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i mean im not trying to be mean, im really not. but you used vanish rotationally in the past since its inception in classic. we have the classic mode to prove it. while yes it didnt revolve around it, but it still used it rotationally

i know everyones opinions are valid it just we have to make sure opinions dont out weight facts so unintentional misinfo spreads

like i seen the the take “rtb rng isthe reason i do 0 damage” alot and 100% of the time its just not true. rtb has less variance with damage than sin and sub does with its own engines.

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Feels really good to me, but rogue is not for everyone , its one of those classes

1 Like