How does the rogue community feel about the DF design for outlaw?
I am someone who greatly prefers the old school combat rogue, and the legion version of outlaw that was a hack and slash brawler, not reliant on re-stealthing at all.
In DF it seems like they wanted to try something new with outlaw, and basically turn it into subtlety 2.0 with a heavy reliance on proccing stealth mechanics and re entering stealth. Crackshot, the haste talent, ambush etc.
This to me was really weird and completely turned me away from the spec that I have loved pretty much since vanilla. Combat and outlaw was always the rogue spec that was the least proficient with stealth, and the fantasy was that of a brawler or toe to toe fighter. A more durable rogue that was less sneaky.
Add onto this the new way Adrenalin rush interacts with the kit. It’s supposed to be a major cooldown but it has morphed into something you just want to be active all the time or as often as possible.
I feel like a lot of rogues do enjoy the new Outlaw playstyle and so I wanted to just ask the forum rogue community what they prefer. I feel like this new outlaw playstyle could be moved to subtlety since that spec seems pretty messy since legion, but I don’t know. I just want back my hack and slash brawler rogue.
6 Likes
The Keep It Rolling build is more reminiscent of the old Combat. With Killing Spree being a combo-spender, there was potential.
The problem was energy regen and RNG procs were criminally low until you got your tier set bonus, and even then sometimes you were strung out trying to build Dispatch stacks in the criminally short fifteen second window.
The whole ideal of Combat initially was to use defensive CD’s judiciously and becoming more and more deadlier the longer you were in combat.
Roll the Bones threw that out the window.
1 Like
Combat had a reputation for not having a unique identity and the name didn’t reflect what it could do supposedly. But Combat was a spec designed to specialize in many combat (arms) like mace, sword, MH/OF dagger, throwing daggers, etc. And its unique identity was CDR and being able to use every global for extra attacks. Combat also specialized in unique utility that Sub did not have. Combat had tricks for out of stealth situations while Sub had tricks for in stealth situations.
Current Outlaw has no identity because Kspree is a non factor in the rotation. AR was the lynchpin of the specs ability to do anything in DF and now has been neutered. And RTB is still an issue because it requires too many talents and set bonus just to make it average.
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Idk what happened but I tried playing outlaw yesterday and it seems way more clonky than pre TWW patch.
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100% agree with this. I miss the old combat/legion gameplay. I have no idea what they were doing in DF, it just didnt make sense.
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I personally think whoever is designing Outlaw or has the most input on it has seriously misunderstood what an Outlaw, Highwayman, or Pirate actually is. It’s maybe a LITTLE better now that full-on Shadow Dance is “gone” but there are still plenty of stealth/vanish talents still hanging about.
I get that the stealth/vanish thing is a kind of gameplay… but that really, really leans into Subtlety’s territory (and even Assassination can make a case for mid-fight stealth) versus a toe-to-toe brawler. Outlaws are more the type where once the fight is joined, they simply have to come out the other side of it alive by any means necessary… but that usually doesn’t include chucking smoke bombs and hiding for a second before they get the drop on their opponent again, rinse-repeat.
But, I don’t know if there’s any fixing the stealth/vanish stuff now that it’s peppered throughout the spec.
I suppose at a minimum I’d really like to see Roll the Bones lend more thematic flair to the spec in terms of how it buffs (even visually) versus just giving little nudges to certain abilities or regen. Those small nudges get lost in a lot of the gameplay loop otherwise… a few are more noticeable than others, but, meh.
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I don’t mind if Outlaw has a little bit of Assassination or Sub game play tied into it as it is like in classic version of the game where you can build hybrid specs.
Hybrid specs are fun and Sublaw of DF was fun in certain moments with Crackshot during Shadow Dance windows. The problem is that BlizZard is not supportive of alternate play styles and also nerfed Crackshot to the ground.
Outlaw lost Dreadblade/MFs which was an alternative to Crackshot builds. Losing Seal Fate also lessened the specs versatility.
I mean ER is the only thing left that provides and alternative realistically.
Keep it Rolling Builds are just too hamstrung with the limitations due to RTB RNG nature.
1 Like