With the changes to killing spree in 11.2, it seems we’re leaning even further into the pirate/gunslinger class fantasy.
For those of us who like a dual wielding sword class, but not the pirates and pistols, I’m wondering if we will finally get glyphs to cover this over. It seems wild that outlaw is the one with the swords as weapons, but they’re not even our main weapon anymore.
That is a good point. But with the new tier set bonus they are trying to bring back some melee flavor. Time will tell on this one.
But yes a glyph to turn the Pistol into crossbow would be cool.
the idea behind isn’t that youre supposed to be a gunslinger, just imagine having a knife fight and then the other guy reaches into his waistband with lightning reflexes and just pops you
Trawling back it seems this has been pretty divisive for years now. Some people love the pirate/outlaw, others the agile fighter/duelist.
Imo, there are good examples of other classes managing these divides well. For example, marksman hunters hero talents gave audiences strong visuals and roleplay options in both the ‘sentinel’ and ‘dark ranger’ class fantasies.
I get that pirate/outlaw is a popular class fantasy, but this divide appears to go back years, eager to hear others thoughts.
To be honest a gun doesn’t mean a pirate. I think it fits ‘outlaw’ well. The kinda character who brings a gun to a knife fight, who turns the odds of the fight in their favour by sneaking a pistol in. Etc. the dice fits a saloon/bar going person too, again not specific to pirate.
I think the pirate theme has come from a lot of people making it. Like me for example, to be honest.
Outside of pistol shot though you can make an outlaw rogue build that doesn’t focus on crack shot or RTB. It probably won’t perform as well at the moment but you can spend your talents in such a way.
Otherwise there is fury warrior, to focus on a two swords fighter. Or sub can use a 1h in their offhand just fine, no guns there.
Dunno, I think BFA outlaw sounded almost cartoonishly piratey and it came from that. At least I can look past anything that might be considered piratey now but I’d definitely personally prefer the theme more in line of with the other specs.
I feel like the current Pirate theming in Outlaw is mostly down to a few ability names, like the Drink Up Me Hearties and Boarding Party PvP talents or the names of buffs and icons for Roll the Bones buffs. I don’t think Pistol Shot or Between the Eyes from a gameplay perspective necessarily makes it feel too piratey. I’m sick of vanish being an offensive CD / using Crackshot but because it feels bad in practice rather than it feeling too far removed from the duelist class fantasy.
I think the more egregious theme that’s come around is the idea of this divine gambling agent of fate kind of deal, with Roll the Bones rolling “The dice of fate”, Fatebound flipping a coin and the flavor text behind the hero talent tree being “the hand of fate,” and the tier being “Spectral Gambler.”
I can buy that Outlaw is still a mostly duelist class fantasy, but I’d like the more grandiose theme to come down. I don’t have strong opinions on the concealed pistol, though I do kind of like having a button that can help keep enemy players in combat from range.
for me its the existence of underhanded upper hand, i just dont like having to constantly be in stealth to keep adrenaline rush going for as long as humanly possible, i don’t like having to prepull it in m+, it feels more fitting for either assassination or subtlety to want to be in stealth all of the time
Agreed - as noted I think a few glyphs could change the flavour dramatically, but you’re right that the hero trees feel like a missed opportunity to build character, and fatebound feels like a very niche class fantasy.
Combat rogue is still much mourned by the community, and popular archetypes like ‘scout’, ‘samurai’, or ‘battlemaster’ (to name a few) would go a long way to inject some vitality that made that original class so popular.
Sure, you’re right that at the time that we were surrounded by pirates that looked like and did a lot of the same things, it’s easy to make that connection.
But I guess at this point we are getting pretty close to a philosophical ‘what is a pirate, if not just an outlaw on a boat?’.
I think I agree that less grandiose would feel more comfortable. But things like the fatebound shenanigans or other hero talents like “death stalker” have come from the idea that we’ve done some pretty grandiose things at this point… taking down titans and a few old gods and even going to the afterlife and back. Would be a little undeserving if I was still just ‘a duellist’. I sure as heck didn’t duel the jailer.
Yeah look mechanically rogue in general has some improvements it could make, but I think this is more about the feeling of being forced to fit a certain theme.
If they change the Outlaw spec to ranged, and lose all of it’s Combat roots, after 20 years of playing the Combat/Outlaw spec, I will quit this game.
The whole pirate theme has rubbed me the wrong way ever since it was implemented into my fav spec (Combat).
It’s almost as though these devs wanna shove this pirate spec down our throats, then they wonder why no one likes playing Outlaw.