Stop. Your reasoning for defending UH cd bloat is beyond of a stretch. Theres no defending that. Its not fun, theres no reason to have all that many cds, and in most cases, specialy on lower content things are already dead when you are done setting up. They recently changed warriors offensive cds and they are not even near our bloat. Plus theres no outbreak issue. Its changed, its not being reverted, youll have to be more carufull applying it, thats it. Not a big deal.
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in pvp having that many cds means you have lots of tools in your toolkit, you dont stack them all up at once like you do in say a ST raid encounter. gargoyle goes on teh healer so he can’t drink, DT is reserved for specific phases in the fight, either when you want extra damage or you want your second interrupt ready, and your actual kill phase you only use apoc+abomb+UF, 3 gcds and then you are straight into necrowound stacking.
GCD bloat is a matter of opinion, and is really only a problem for PVE situations where your spells are only used mathematically and not strategically.
this is because of QQ over unholy ranged play in legion, ranged players felt it was unfair that dks could basically get no loss in dps while being kited so a huge amount of our front end damage was cut and moved to autoattack in order to force us into melee range.
the result is that SS/CS, FS, and FW all hit like wet noodles, and like i said, is really nothing more than filler to keep you from falling asleep for the solid minute of nothing we do between apoc cycles.
this isn’t an issue in PVP because if you are in hybrid pvp like war mode or epics, you use reanimation as your primary dps instead of wounds and strikes, and you dont need filler in arena.
one thing everyone wants is dark transformation off the GCD, but im more concerned that the devs would take “gcd bloat” to mean “remove spells from class” instead of “remove spells from gcd”
this is how we ended up with gargoyle as a talent for bfa.
oh cool, nvm then.
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No it simply doesnt. If youre not popping all at once to nuke someone down youre doing it wrong. You have no valid argument to justify defending bloat at all.
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the complaint is a skill ceiling issue in understanding how the spec works.
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Don’t bother, they haven’t stepped foot in Arena on their DK so they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.
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i pvp all the time, and i’ve done arena before, even better is i can watch stuff like flarkness’s guides to get a sense of what is going on in arena even though i spend most of my time in wpvp and bgs.
plus i just have a boat load of playtime spent fiddling with the class.
the GCD bloat complaint is partially valid, but the idea that you have to go through a bunch of gcds before you can dps is not, the gcds you go through are the dps.
also, you’re only honor level 15.
Yeah, weird how they can never explain how doing N’zoth, or arena, or whatever, is a direct translation to automatically understanding how KM works, or anything else for that matter. Mechanics are different in each boss fight, and even each pvp battle is different because you are introducing human error on both sides.
I think what people mean is that you have to go through a lot of gcd’s before you get to the main rotation that you do most of the time, or the DK potion of the damage doesnt come in until later. Pets arent players so thats probably where the disconnect comes in even though these things are still sources of damage like apoc, garg and army.
it’s just poor debate technique, you can call it gatekeeping or adhominim or whatever, but essentially when someone doesn’t like what is said and can’t counter the argument/idea directly, they then go after the person saying it.
even if i did arena, how much arena is enough? we know where that goes and the calls for experience generally vastly outweigh the person calling it. Jerkules is only honor level 15 and is a ~1600 player in both 2s and 3s, so its obvious there isn’t some hidden mastery im missing out on that he knows.
that is absolutely the issue. unholy is a turret class, we setup a turret and it does the damage for us, the indirect nature of that is not going to be fun for someone who is looking for more direct feedback.
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At least I’m in there trying stuff out on my one day off a week, you may have more honor levels than me but you’re still ~0 in both 2s and 3s. Every single time I’ve run with anything that isn’t a Shadow Priest we’ve needed to deliberately stagger our goes because Disease->DT->GCD->Abom->GCD->Apoc->GCD->Trinket->UF->GCD->D&D (If Melee cleave) or CoI->GCD-> Necro Strike spam (insert Festering Strike if wounds dip to low). That’s a lot of crap and a lot of GCDs to get thru before I start wound bursting so my partner needs to sit there the entire time because if I’m not popping wounds they’re healing thru my partner’s burst and I’m not doing my job of pressuring the healer with Necro. Nevermind the fact that I might need to stop what I’m doing and throw out an Asphyxiate or a Grip. The pure constant pressure from Gushing helps a alleviate this go a bit but guess what, it’s going away.
sounds tough dude.
You wanted an actual response, you got one. If you enjoy huge amounts of ramp up hoo-boy do I have a suggestion for you, why not try out shadow priest? They get to wait almost 10 mins before they’re actually doing anything, you’ll love it.
i’ve got two.
Random bgs is not pvp tbh. Neither is being hardstuck on 1.6k raiting.
generally i see that comment from people salty about being blown up by a demo
“if we were in arena i could totally kill you!”
thats probably why im using a demo from 70 yards away to kill you.
pvp smarter, not harder.
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I repeat random bgs is not real pvp. Argue as much as you want.
with pleasure.
in a direct sense you are correct, the win condition in arena is to secure a kill, so 100% of your focus can be on the spell interactions of the duel.
so why dont high end arena players like to recognize other forms of pvp? they aren’t good at them and are insecure about that fact. and bgs are objective based, the win conditions are generally map based, so the simple condition of “i killed you, therefore i’m better” no longer applies.
i get rage whispers from people all the time talking about how i’m bad because they managed to kill me, and all i have to point at to shut them up is ask two words: “who won?”
a lot of this really comes down to simple competitive arguments, arena is a natural evolution end result of “lets see who is better”
better at what?
lets use cars as a comparison:
arena is like drag racing, you build a specialized setup just for doing that one thing, its short, simple, and 100% of your focus is around that.
bgs are like road racing/track day, you still need a specialized setup but your conditions are different, for example, a drag racing car doesn’t need to handle well, but a track day car does.
even though everyone is racing and everyone is into cars, imagine the drag racers going to the track racers and telling them they aren’t really racing.
or better yet, the drag racer wants to prove he is a better driver than the track day racer by having a drag race, and he refuses to then return the favor and have a track race.
you would think the drag racers are entitled 
s right? so why do we tolerate this behavior from arena players?
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We need more abilities off the gcd; not less abilities. This is why we got some things back this expansion. That being said there are some real concerns about how the spec is going to play. If the beta thread is correct Scourge Strike won’t smart target enemies with wounds on them, making our aoe effectively dead.
Our legendary items are lackluster and our play style is also lackluster because of mechanical issues. In terms of theme we need more disease interaction aside from the crucible that gives us Frost Fever/Blood Plague.
Funny you say this and right on the heels of that complaint defend the trash that is new outbreak. Which has the very real potential to extend that ramp up for no reason other than to f**K us over as UDK players. We’ve always had agency about spreading dot’s. Now we don’t; not that Outbreak was much in the way of agency but the point still stands. This is worse for no reason, much like the rest of the spec.
Get better at managing buttons, in response to your complaint about the amount you have to go through before doing damage, not a big deal. All these years later and you still manage to be one of the best people at invalidating your own arguments. If you want a 3 button class Demon Hunter is that way dude.
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Oh i never said less abilities, off gcd or plain removed either works for me. Tbh i dont see the point of gargoyle baseline.
And if you see a big issue on outbreak change maybe you need to get better. Its a minor nuisance at best.
You have beta access to quantify that statement about outbreak? Seems like its more on the tank than the DK, same as our DND Aoe burst the last two expacs.
Nice dodge on my point about it being the same situation with our clunky CD usage. The spec isn’t smooth and hasn’t been since Wrath which is a real issue.
Dude. You are so bad at the game. We already have little moves. And your trying to remove more? Don’t speak for all Unholy dks, you don’t speak for all Unholy dks. I want more moves. Not less. This is not tekken.
Dont say thats all of our concerns.
I want more moves for dk, we used to have so many more. And they removed a lot of them. Took out the flavor completely. They need to the move back.
People are trying to turn this game into such a bad game. Just cause bad players dont like pressing more buttons.