Were there better spots to found a city? Rather than in the middle of a barren wasteland where issues with the wood and supplies would cause wars and skirmishes?
It doesn’t surprise me as Thrall is not really a good choice maker, but I’d wanted to see if y’all had any better ideas.
There was many reason for the location he picked. First the area was next to the sea as well as close to the Barrens and Ashenvale. Though the area is a waist land in many ways the harsh living was on purpose. Orc tend to be more aggressive then other races and look for ways to test their strength. By building the city in a harsh place it was a way to push his people through struggle. That being said they did have Warsong in Ashenvale and there was a fresh water river that ran next to the gates of the city wood could be brought in if needed.
A lot of the debate comes from the Garrosh short story. While they city did have what people needed to survive the people didn’t live in the lap of luxury. They couldn’t just cut down as much wood or hunt as much as they wanted in Ashenvale as it was controlled by the night elves. Garrosh believed and Orc should take whatever his people needs, and they can prove their strength on the battle field.
Thrall looked for alternative ways to deal with his people’s aggression, Garrosh embraced it.
He was more or less stuck on Kalimdor. MOST of Kalimdor consists of grasslands, plains, deserts, mountains/hills, and terrain that’s not exactly abundant in easily extractable natural lumber.
It’s worth noting that Orgrimmar is on the coast and right up against some of the largests forests on Kalimdor. So it’s not in the MIDDLE of a barren wasteland.
There weren’t so many issues with wood and supplies when Orgrimmar was founded. Daelin Proudmoore deforested a lot of Durotar when he built Tiragarde Keep.
Also see these quotes from The Shattering:
Cause pretending not to notice your people invading the sacred land of the people you worked together with to save the world isn’t as laughable and disgusting when you’re city isn’t built literally on the border.
Because Thrall is a walking Moses analogy. It was to “atone” for the horde’s perceived sins.
That said, moving down to Un’Goro crater seems like a better deal. Plenty of wood and water, and dinosaurs for the young orcs to vent their pent up aggression on. Even Feralas would work. Killing ogres is a time-honored Orc tradition.
One of major factors due to Durotar not having enough wood and supplies is because of Daelin’s invasion into the area.
The Long Trip down there probably wouldn’t of ended well either. The Migration would of taken years and they would of had to travel through several contested territories. Feralas was still NE territory and Un’Goro would of taken even longer.
Stonetalon Mountains would of been a desent choice though. Maybe not so much water but more Wooded and fewer other inhabatants
You’re all missing the fact that the Orcs should have just moved to Mulgore. High cliffs for defense, lush land with a lake in the middle of it, and all the Quillboar you can eat. It’s not like the Tauren wouldn’t have shared… most of them are still migratory.
But no, Thrall wanted the Orcs to have their own homeland, as both a symbol of strength and their devotion to repentance. He just didn’t count on the younger generation not having the same guilt complex he and the Orcs that were tricked by the Legion had developed.
Orgrimmar’s location has gotten crappier 3 times since it was built.
-Proudmoore clearcut the forests as part of his “total war of genocide” campaign, specifically to ruin the environment
-In Cata the elements went bananas and droughts and floods ruined a lot of the nearby farmland
-Goblins poisoned the main source of water with their “industry”
I forgot about the deforestation in WC3, guess since it was a map on an RTS it didn’t look so impactful.
Oh? You mean Bilgewater Harbor?
Chooses location to atone for past sins
Ignores his people invading other peoples land, stealing their resources, and killing their people
Daelin Proudmoore deforested a lot of Durotar, in his efforts to starve the orcs of resources.
Is there a source for the majority of Durotar being deforested by Daelin? I’ve never played WCIII (the horror!) but I was under the impression Daelin’s assault only lasted a matter of days, maybe a week. It’s hard to believe he managed to invade and conquer Durotar, have a strong enough hold on the region to cut down all the trees, and still have enough troops to maintain martial law in Theramore.
You should give Reforged a try when it releases, it’s a pretty damn good game.
As for the question at hand, at least in-game a whole load of trees were cut down with a Lumber Mill right in the middle, it was almost a quarter or half of the map being cut down. So I guess by RTS representation that’s a big chunk of Durotar’s forest.
Half of Feralas was claimed by the Night Elves, the other half by the Tauren. Ignoring of course the Harpy, Giant, Naga, and Ogre presence.
They could have co-existed there perhaps? Unless it’s Grimtotem we’re talking about.
Well, they’ve dealt with Harpies, Ogres, and many other stuff in the Founding Campaign. And it was just good ol’ Rexxar and company.
WC3. Not only is it reflected on the map, but there’s a mission to cull the starving thunder lizards.
While Bilgewater isn’t doing anyone any favors either, in one of the side stories, they mentioned that the Southfury River (big river between Org and Ashenvale) was basically poison now due to gobbies. And of course the river going through NW Org is ultra-polluted by them too.
Huh, now that’s an interesting topic.
I wonder why they never reap the repercussions of what they sow.