Optimal vs Viable

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
1

I think there’s a distinction that people are missing between optimal and viable. A lot of people get butthurt when they’re told their class/spec sucks, etc.

The fact is if you walk into MC or Ony with 40 people and everyone has decent gear and you’ve got a raid comp that covers “Tank, healer, DPS” (note I didn’t say warrior, or priest or mage) then you’ll win if people do their jobs. You wanna roll with Moonkins, rets, feral druids and enhancement shaman, you can win. It will be harder, but it still won’t be ‘hard’.

If you walk into MC or Ony with a 40 man raid of all optimal specs in Pre-BiS you’re gonna steamroll the heck out of the content.

Viable works. Optimal destroys. There’s no reason you can’t have a raid with non-optimal specs rolling in. You just have to learn how to play with those non-optimal specs.

Example: bear tanks generate threat faster than warriors, but they do take more damage over the course of a fight. This means healers will use more mana and can’t last as long… so, you need to do more dps, faster. Luckily, as I mentioned, bears generate more threat so your DPS can go heavier, earlier, and the fight will be shorter so it balances out.

Ret doesn’t do as much DPS as most DPS classes, but they also have the ability to throw a heal out there and bring a bunch of utility that ups everyone elses efficiency, so having a ret paladin doesn’t hurt you. Where you might lose some individual contribution DPS, you make up for it with increased effectiveness of the rest of the raid.

Feral DPS is meh without gimmicks and true minmaxing your rotation, but you slap one of those in with your rogues/warriors and you up all those rogues/warriors individual DPS.

Moonkins even have a place with the druid utilities and their aura helping casters.

If you’re rolling a melee heavy raid you want some ferals in there and shaman. If you’re rolling a caster heavy raid, boomkins and if it’s locks, Spriests…

All the ‘non-optimal’ specs offer something that’s useful and somewhat makes up for where they might be lacking and NONE of the content is so hard that it has to be minmaxed to complete. None of it’s even close.

If you wanna play optimally, sorry… you’re locked into a few select specs and classes, and if you get real into min/max you are also locked into specific races and tradeskills. If that’s what makes the game fun for you, more power to you.

If you wanna play a feral druid or ret paladin, shadow priest, enhancement shaman, or any other ‘non optimal’ spec, go for it. Play it serious, know your toolsets and how to apply them and you’ll be fine. You aren’t gimping yourself and there will be plenty of people that recognize that and you’ll be able to consume all the content you want.

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2

sure

just don’t expect raids to take you if you demand your sub optimal fun spec is all you’ll play. making your own raid or forming guilds with like minded individuals is the best route

Shine on, you crazy diamonds.

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I’m not a mix/maxer but if you’re playing an odd spec, it would be best to find a guild that doesn’t mind for raids. I’d always tell the raid officers etc. I’m going to at least.

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the minority care, the majority don’t. Sure, they aren’t gonna be filling a raid with all non-optimal, but most guilds I’ve talked to that aren’t pushing for lolfirsts don’t really care. They just wanna kill stuff and have fun.

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5

I don’t quite get it. Every day I see posts on how Classic is way too easy, yet I also see that that there seems to be no place for non-optimal specs.

If things are so easy, should it not matter if you throw in some extra retribution paladins or feral druids?

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6

The biggest reason it matters is loot competition. By using offspec, they are stepping outside the loot categories Blizzard placed in the drop tables for them.

This increases the pressure on certain items that are already heavily sought after by people who are in their designed raid role.

In essence, it just feels bad to other players with increased competition and makes it harder to gear everyone up.

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7

There is really no reason to insist on playing your off spec. What you should insist on is once your guild gets those raids on farm, you can roll on the pieces you need for your off spec. It’s a simple formulae.
If your guild is into using off specs for raids that’s fine, but there is no reason to get broken up over it if not.

8

I agree with this, and phase 1-3 is exactly the time when you should be trying out the “fun” off specs that eventually got phased out.
If I want to roll into a dungeon with a strength/Stam based melee warlock, and firestone+epic 1 hander, it’s a viable build. Is it optimal, No, as other specs may out dps. And Stam strength cloth gear is hard to come by.

But you should keep in mind that not being optimal in a raid means a.tougher fight, a higher chance of wiping, and when to many players are just having fun and not trying to win, this repair bills can add up.

9

I will be honest, i dislike the terms viable or broken

Neither is accurate. all they are saying is not the best. Its obvious blizz rotates the best specs classes so everyone gets a chance to be on top, except shamans of course

10

Agreed!

If you’re a hard-core classic player (sort of an oxymoron) seeking a “challenge” - then in theory, wouldn’t that constitute a challenge?

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11

They definitely don’t rotate in classic. Viable and Broken are both completely correct to use when talking about certain specs.

You can load up on these specs and clear MC. It won’t be ideal but with good players you can definitely do it. What will become evident though is that the further you progress is that you will hit road blocks simply because there’s no way to properly gear these specs because they weren’t considered when the loot for classic was developed.

That’s not to say that you can’t fit a few of these specs into a BWL/AQ40/Naxx raid and progress. They just will be getting dragged through the content by the rest of the group. No amount of good play will make a Ret Paladin or Balance Druid equal to a Fury Warrior or Mage.

12

You can meme spec BWL. Im confident you can meme spec AQ, I dont remember it being that hard. Mostly just dont stand in bad.

Naxx, I only ever did a few bosses during Vanilla, so I can’t really speak on that.

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You have cancer, your doctor discusses viable and optimal ways to cure the cancer. Which do you pick?

“viable” = meme spec getting carried on already farmed content.

“Optimal” = what the devs intended to work in raids.

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Which one can I afford/which one does my insurance cover?

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Wait, let me get this straight, you’re comparing a life threatening disease to a 14 year old video-game?

I also hardly think you can speak for what the devs did or did not intend. Clearly, being Blizzard is a corporation, they want to ensure people are playing and paying - as many people as possible to be sure.

Unbelievable, truly that you would make such a ridiculous comparison. I think though, it’s telling. It tells me if you believe that to be a reasonable comparison, you’ve invested too much of your own self-worth / life fulfillment into some rented pixels.

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16

Are you pointing out min/maxing is cancerous?

If so, I agree.

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17

let me get this straight you don’t have the ability to think abstractly?

Ironically picking optimal and viable in a raid is life and death like cancer.

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Yes you can. They had 12 major patches to ‘fix’ Ret/Balance/etc to be on par with the other classes for damage or at least bring something to make them more useful utility wise. They didn’t do that.

You can look at the loot available in MC/BWL/AQ40/Naxx and see that they strongly wanted Paladins/Shamans/Druids to largely heal. They can certainly do other things to various levels of success and can certainly clear the game. It just won’t be with a raid group full of those off specs because they won’t have the gear to prop them up.

This became less stringent in TBC and was finally finally changed in WotLK but this isn’t those expansions.

19

Imagine comparing cancer to entertainment and thinking you are making a point.

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20

What are you talking about.

People playing retribution or feral aren’t off specing. They’re playing their spec main spec.

There are three designed raid roles. Tank, DPS, and Healer.

Ret Paladins, and Feral druids don’t disrupt that reality.

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