2 minutes between viable burst windows that are easy to shutdown, low survivability, no root breaks.
The different opinions come from the class being bad in different ways
pick a class that fits a similar role, it is nearly worse than the class you compare it to in every way
So just the DR, not the CC portion? Not sure how theyâd code that, maybe add a separate buff?
Hard disagree. I donât think a damage immunity should ever be useable in stuns.
Do you think this would be a buff or a nerf? I guess itâd work pretty similarly, but be just as susceptible to stuff like grip/knocks etc.
Thatâs not the point of what I was saying but okay⊠I guess my opinion is invalid unless Iâm high rated and me feeling like the class was ignored and not getting the attention it needs is also wrong 
my apologies, I wonât ever have an opinion again until I push rating. That way maybe youâll take me more seriously and feel that my feelings are valid 
Donât even bother, thereâs so much hate for our class anymore itâs not even worth your time talking to these idiots.
Huh? The entire point attempting to be made in this thread is the lack of DHs getting glad. I didnât attack your rating, didnât say you werenât a glad. I asked why youâre here saying itâs not viable when ( based on games played ) you havenât attempted to push forâŠglad. No need to get defensive
Didnât realize eye beam was a 2 min cd.
Or that fel eruption and chaos nova was a 2 min cd.
Play with an hpal then.
Okay, fire mage.
Fire mage is leagues worse than DH.
I was just qing my DH in a 2.3 shuffle in greens and felt perfectly fine. Forcing major cds reliably every eye beam fel erupt and really didnât die WHILE being trained. Maybe itâs just an l2p issue? 
Ofc the spec is weaker than whats the best in the game. Thereâs just no comparing any melee to rogues/ferals/fury/enh. Doesnât just mean itâs this invalidated spec that has absolutely no playability. Anyone who complains that DHs are unplayable should probably go watch an mvq vod or 4.
just going to reply with h ttps://check-pvp.fr/us/Moon%20Guard/J%C3%B9mp%C3%BDb%C3%B5%C3%AD
2.3 games in greens? didnât know default shuffle mmr was 2.3 (you have 2 shuffles played on dh at a 50% winrate), or that you literally havenât played any other categories
got it though, you are a cringe dh hater, Iâll make sure to make the mental note that Raisin = Liar
You must be new here. Yes that is a good assessment.
yeah I am lol, I wish I stayed new and never entered this cursed place
If you feel like youâre being baited itâs best to not engage. Thereâs no point in engaging with someone who doesnât want a fair exchange.
Yeah, 2.3 in greens sounded like complete BS to me lmao.
Oh way to twist it 
defensive? Iâm just making fun lol. I could really care less about all that stuff, I never felt DH was as bad as some make it out to be, but itâs most definitely not good. Iâm not sure what details you want me to clarify for you lol. But I feel personally it felt bad when my class has had barely any changes since BETA while other classes get QoL, reworks, buffs ect. And we get âauto attack buff, 10% more damageâ blah blah. Itâs just tiring and frustrating, weâre not fine, we could use some attention too 
Imagine saying yikes and toxic in 2025. Lmfao. Biden isnât president anymore.
Eeeeehm, no! Well, depending on the lobby/enemy 3s team it could be slightly better or more worse! But WW is pretty much on DH level based on success on high ratings. Just take a look at the NA 3s ladder:
| Spec | count 2400 | count 1000 | per mille |
|---|---|---|---|
| WW | 8 | 1665 | 4.8 |
| DH | 6 | 1077 | 5.57 |
| ⊠| ⊠| ⊠| ⊠|
| Fury | 63 | 3009 | 20.94 |
| Outlaw | 25 | 529 | 47.26 |
So keep WW out of that list, its as awful as DH and should NEVER be listed with Fury or Outlaw ever!! I also donât get your point about defense.
https://wowarenalogs.com/stats?tab=spec-stats&bracket=Rated%20Solo%20Shuffle&sortKey=target&minRating=2100&maxRating=4999&trendChartSpecs=&trendChartStat=representation
DH is the least killed DPS in shuffle and 3s on 2100+ rating based on that list. Even below Shadow and WW! Yes, you can get killed in a stun when you overextend too much and/or donât respect enemy setup opportunities, but that is as it should be, isnât it?
Its not that they should buff DH, they should nerf a few outliers like Outlaw, Assa, Fury, BM, Ele and maybe a few more. Also isnât it their damage, its their toolkit that needs to be addressed. Outlaw brings too much CC for their damage. Fury is too bursty especially for their MS. Stuff like that needs to be tuned!
Itâs not that DH is bad, itâs that DH players want it BROKEN. Got it.
No lol this is an easy buff, it literally allows u to keep attacking and moving while having the Darkness effect on you
And if you are playing with the only spec that is as squishy as you are (Moonkin), you can choose not to play the talent so you can dump it on the ground as before for your teammate
It wouldnât be susceptible to anything, basically pretend Darkness would be a defensive version of Immolation aura, a self buff for the duration with a radius working around you
Eye Beam is not âbig burstâ, itâs good damage like a mini-go, similar to getting Warbreaker off CD on Warrior or any other 40-45 second CD in the game.
DH currently kills in Shuffle only if you reach 2nd Metamorphosis, because you get your Demonsurges then + dampening is very high. But in 3v3 people are more coordinated and could easily CC you + it is not enough to confirm a kill as healing is still very high at 3 minutes into the game.
Fel Eruption and Chaos Nova are not burst CDâs. Theyâre both 3 second stuns. Nobody cares about trinketing those because they are not long enough to kill anybody.
Chaos Nova is only a 5 second stun if you hit 1 target, and this includes pets. You will never realistically have a 5 second stun into any class with trash pets or people stacking. It is also dispellable, meaning it is usually the most viable for healers.
In short, it is a worse Pala Hoj with bonus requirements or a worse Leg Sweep
WW is not as awful as DH, simply because you have much better survivalbility.
Statistically it may also be tied to popularity, but it is a stretch to say it is worse than DH
WW has very solid defensive cooldowns, and Conduit of the Celestials is a 90 second CD (like The Hunt) but does 4x more damage than it.
Between Fists Parry, Port, Disarm, Wall, Diffuse and Karma you have a lot of buttons that you can cycle to survive.
Those buttons are also much lower cooldown than DH defensives. When you have 3 buttons that are 90 second CD as defensives along with a pretty much permanent outplay condition vs Melees (Fists), itâs a different story
Even Ring of Peace still denies so much things in the game
I would go as far as to say that you have so many tools to live on Windwalker, that you have to do a lot of missplay to get killed by anything outside of a Rogue / Feral stun
That got nerfed in case you arenât up to date. And like I said, the ladder speaks for itself. DH is performing on 3s NA ladder at 2400+ better than WW. Success is all that matters, anything else is pointless!
Always funny, how DHs forget that they have better CC and especially the stuns are not only a great CC for offense, but also kinda a defensive CD.
Also shouldnât we forget, that you can dispel your healer and got a CC immunity on a short CD which is great to avoid getting stunned for example. In case against double melees you have the best defense ingame: Flyhack. But for some reason, barely any DH is picking it. Probably because they donât have to?! 
Well on average DH has a little bit more uptime than WW does
You take the reconnecting of DH but you also remove the fact that WW have 2 ways to remove roots
Look mate I am not saying WW is in a great spot either, it just has different kinds of problems leading to less gameplay - WW has uptime issues on a lot of specs
Way back up I even said myself itâs the spec I defaulted after I felt like I am getting no progress with DH
Got my 2.4 in Shuffle pre-blackout kick / Karma nerf, but it wasnât easy by any means
Holy and Ret paladin in particular just makes your existence worthless as a Windwalker
But that is a topic for another thread, I am fully on board with you when it comes to WW problems
Thereâs just no point to have to point out who is the âKing of the trashâ
I started playing mine a bit last night, did a few random BGs and some TW dungeons to level. Iâve always enjoyed the playstyle, just wish it hadâŠmore buttons? Idk, seems like Iâm always looking for a button to mash 
I have been seeing more lately ( mind you, I really only do BGs / BGB ) so thatâs always a good sign.