They’re fine.
3 Likes
Yeah you’re right, everything else just needs a nerf!
Swimming between 2200 and 2400 constantly for hundreds of games in Shuffle, less in 3v3
And those aren’t even “high” ratings
The lack of impact the spec has on a game + the lackluster defensives just create issues
There is no reason to play Havoc rn unless you main it and you’re a long time player. Most people rerolled already
Windwalker is better
Fury is better
All Rogue specs are better
Feral is better
Ret is better
In situations Frost Dk, Arms and Enha are also better
Only Unholy DK is in the same boat as Havoc rn
low impact target dummy with pad dmg
I mean yeah, I agree. my nearly fresh DH was doing 22-23mmr 2s. Granted we didn’t win because of lack of gear, it didn’t feel auto lose and there was a ridiculous amount of kill pressure.
So translating that basic information to 3s means the spec is more than fine.
Even the DHs I play with in shuffles are just complete freaks to deal with. They do the most inhumane damage and refuse to die.
3 Likes
You’re making me consider creating one like right after work lmao. My new hunter is almost 80. After I fixed him up I am going to find out myself what these randoms are whining about hahaha. Im pretty sure they’re a great and actual fun class.
Sounds like that’s where you belong, that’s not a class issue that’s a you not being happy that you’re a 2200-2400 player. 
Completely off-topic: I was doing BGB on my Evoker last night and saw a 2400 RSS Fury Warrior with 3.7k GAMES PLAYED. WHO HAS THE TIME OR PATIENCE FOR THAT?!
5 Likes
Well some people play from hospital beds
It’s not just me mate.
That’s the problem.
You have multi rank 1 demon hunters who are not going to even get Gladiator this season, or will barely get it at season end.
They don’t belong in 2200 either.
Just like 1800 peak BM hunters don’t belong in 2400.
It’s called bad class balancing
And there won’t be even 1 single Rank 1 DH in 3v3, at best only Mvq will get it
I think you’re confusing not getting Gladiator on a DH with people just not playing DH. Drustvar says there are only 200 DHs ( 1.03% ), across all brackets at 1800+ ( EU and US combined ). Next closest is DK with 797 ( 4.11% ). Personally, I haven’t touched mine since DF just because I find it boring.
And there are no DHs because the spec is underperforming.
Don’t pretend this isn’t an obvious correlation.
Let’s say you get Gladiator regularly on your spec each season. Or 2400. Or whatever.
Then you see that in a season you’re playing, even people better than you can’t get it on that spec.
What is the conclusion of a spec being a severe minority across the board?
That the spec isn’t performing well
didnt they give DH some buffs? it def feels like its performing better but i think DH mains just went fury for the season and didnt look back cause why?
you could still get glad on DH think youd just have to deal with the lfgboogeyman 
to find a team to take you which is more a community issue than blizz issue (outside of the fact they perpetuate the issue by selling character boosts and promoting the FOTM mindset instead of freq tuning)
That’s the whole point of this thread.
The “buffs” barely did anything. That’s why there is basically no change in the number of people playing it now, last month, 2 months ago, etc.
If you can even call them real buffs, anyway, nothing about defensives was changed at all.
Talents - 0.
People log in, queue a few games, see it’s literally in the same spot, and log out and don’t play until they see a meaningful bluepost.
3s has been pretty dead since RSS landed, RSS is taking a hit because BGB is easier to push rating in. < OnlyFangs > is taking a lot of the top PvP’ers and we’ve still got a few months left of this season - and a lot of the top PvP’ers push at the end of the season.
Oh I understand that completely
I am just talking about performance
If “fine” is being 1% of representation for these forum professors, I would love to see how they react to a “fine” if their spec was 1% representation LMAO
Havoc has more rep at 2400 than…
Sub Rogue
MM Hunter
Arcane Mage
Holy Priest
Destro 'lock
Fire Mage
Aug Evoker
Every tank
3 Likes
Every single spec is you listed isn’t played because of a magical button called “Change Specialization”
One the batman class does not have, unless you wanna troll as a Tank
while this is a good point, i feel like a similar logic applies to DH where you could just play a dif class.
sure, if im a fire mage main i could respec to frost, but what if i dont want to feel forced to play frost? just gotta suck it up as fire and deal with it. and while swapping from fire to frost isnt 100% foreign to the mage in this example, it still is the same principle of being forced to play something else because my class/spec that i WANT to play is not viable.
think stuff like this is why seasonal systems arent the best, every dog has its day when you develop like this where specs/classes rotate between their time to shine, but it doesnt feel good when what you want to play sucks. this is why freq tuning and meta changes are required every season instead of just letting things form and stay the same half the season.
side note, its funny seeing ppl say the game is better when DH isnt good, but i thought we established that the game is also better when fury isnt good. id rather see DH over fury and BM hunters with npcs.
So because you can’t grab glad on a spec then it means it needs buffs? Everything I play then needs buffs… What am i doing wrong 
3 Likes
Anyways if there’s something to be learned from this it’s that there’s like 2 real DH players and a bunch of people who just fotm into whatever’s overtuned.
6 Likes
Because it isn’t as comparable.
A great deal of specs function the same way at their core with only damage rotation being done in a different way.
All 3 Mage specs play around keep maximum distance, getting sheeps and being as disruptive as possible. And all 3 Mage specs more often than not win via their CC, not via their DMG.
All 3 Rogue specs play around their CC as well, getting a trinket or kill in Smoke bomb, etc.
All Warlocks have to kite melees and fake kicks, with Demo being slightly different due to more passive damage.
There are more examples, and ofc there are examples where there is very little in common - for example BM and MM hunter. But even they still trap healers, have the same way of surviving damage, range, etc.
People hate Havoc because when Havoc is good it tends to run over lower-rated / newer players (not that like 10 other specs don’t do it even better but yeah). But higher-rated players have always known how to play against Havoc and the spec has always had weaknesses compared to some other specs.
- Havoc dies in stuns as it has 0 spells to press in stuns (so by default countered by Rogues / Ferals / Lasso / etc)
- Havoc is the only melee that sits full duration roots if not dispelled
- Havoc struggles into specs with a million defensives as it has very timed burst damage
- Havoc has the most outdated defensive CD kit along with Moonkin
And there’s more but those are the more key ones.
In comparison
Fury Warrior’s only counter - Mages and Paladins
BM hunter’s counter - nothing
It’s not just me, it’s the entire community as a whole.
PvP balancing should work in the way that each spec can retain their “regular ranks”. And by this I do not mean FOTM rerollers, I mean people who get the same ranks every season for many seasons.
So for people who have gotten Gladiator 4-8 seasons in a row, it shouldn’t suddenly be next to impossible compared to those previous seasons. And I don’t just mean the last 2 seasons post-rework where DH was very strong.
This is the first season in 5 years where I had to push my first 2.4 on another class because it was simply too hard on my main class. And while I do like Windwalker, that spec has different problems that made that push doable, but very annoying (mostly getting completely countered by any kind of Paladin)
You would really say anything just to bash on this entire topic, while I have not said anything remotely bashful about Warriors even when they were underperforming
1 Like