One Thing To Keep In Mind About The 58 Boost

If anything, you could argue thatā€™s because of bots inflating the economy with non-stop gold farming in instances.

Thereā€™s obviously a lot of factors, but hikes in prices like that usually follow banwaves, yes. And then they steadily drop in price until the next one.

Okay? I was talking about the actual legitimate players that Blizzard gained by releasing Classic.

And bots buy those subs in incredible quantities (due to those accounts being banned, needing more accounts to bypass the 30/day restrictions, etc).

The fact they can buy subscriptions so cheaply is what makes it such a strong incentive for botters to do it, especially if they can get to level 58 instantly and make enough gold to pay back that $2 even faster.

Donā€™t forget the level 58 boost is a service youā€™ll have to pay for, too.

Itā€™s not impossible. You probably just gave up after 10 minutes of trying.

Also, considering leveling outside of dungeons. How do you think we did it when Classic first launched? There werenā€™t dungeon groups for us because there werenā€™t enough people at our level to even form a group.

The leveling process is entirely soloable, and thatā€™s by design.

Nonsense. Is a college degree not an accomplishment? Years of military service? Rank 14?

Itā€™s not other people, for one. I despise boosts, but if they exist, I will be compelled to make use of them to remain competitive. It affects me personally.

I disagree.

I made this argument before in another thread, but Iā€™ll repeat it here:
If we ban 1 bot a day, but 2 bots are made each day, should we just not ban bots since the creation of bots outpaces their banning?

No, of course not. If you stop banning bots, the problem gets worse. Just because itā€™s already bad doesnā€™t mean you should abandon all efforts to make it better.

The time is the deterrent, not the gold. I could afford to make about 1,000 level 375 tailorsā€¦ if I had the time to get 1,000 level 50s.

With a boost, time is not a factorā€¦ only the depth of my wallet. Again, itā€™s a predatory practice, and it shouldnā€™t be encouraged.

What exactly are the positives that you keep referring to?

Some people get to Outlands faster?
Some people play for a little bit before quitting?

If youā€™re willing to pay real life money to play the game less, and otherwise would not play it at all, I canā€™t imagine the game interests you all that much.

We are talking about WoW, not military service or a college degree. What are you even talking about now?

Rank 14 is just a time sink.

You need to have better self control then. I canā€™t help you there.

After those 2 responses. Iā€™m done.

Yeah, maybe. I just wonder how much raw gold bots actually contribute to the economy. I feel like raids would be the primary cause of gold inflation. Maybe Iā€™m wrong but when I was doing MC it was something like 40 gold for a clear. Thatā€™s 1,600 gold for a raid and a lot of servers had 80+ raids of MC going every week.

Pagle currently has 10 Hunters in Dire maul, 20 characters in Stratholme; 27 in Silithus and 34 in Winterspring. All different guilds and classes, they donā€™t look like bots at first glance.

Pagle is the most populated server by far. Thereā€™s thousands of people online and itā€™s likely that very few of those characters I just listed off are bots. How many bots on the most popular server are farming those lucrative zones right now? 10? 20? I just have a hard time believing that Blizzard isnā€™t banning massive amounts of bots when looking at these numbers.

Iā€™ve also went on different servers a couple of times to whisper unguilded Mages or Hunters in those areas. Both times I did this in the last few weeks, I whispered ā€œtestā€ in order for their name to appear for me to right-click report. Both people I did this too responded to me, the one person asking ā€œwhat are you testing?ā€

Iā€™m making a point that clearly went over your head.

These are ā€œtime sinksā€ just the same as leveling. Theyā€™re not particularly challenging, but are arbitrary amounts of time you have to spend doing generally trivial and uninteresting tasks to receive what you actually care about.

In the case of leveling, youā€™re doing boring quests and lots of running back and forth just to get the experience so you can unlock the content you actually want.

In college, youā€™re doing a bunch of work in courses you donā€™t really care about and arenā€™t really relevant to your degree just so you can have some proof of formal education so you can actually get a job that suits your interests.

Get it?

Time sink and accomplishment are not mutually exclusive is the point Iā€™m getting at.

Thatā€™s really dismissive of you, and you seem to be missing the point I was making.

Itā€™s not that Iā€™m a slave to my impulses. I enjoy Classic and want to remain competitive in it, and boosts eliminate a significant advantage I have: my time and willingness to actually play the game.

If everyone can just drop money to get to 58 instantly, in order to remain competitive and maintain my advantage, I have to also drop money to get to 58 instantly.

Itā€™s a lot. Blackrock Depths is filled with several unguilded Rogue bots pickpocketing non-stop. Dire Maul is filled with Hunter and Mage bots. Maraudon is filled with Mage bots.

Maybe, but thatā€™s 40g a week versus 30g+ an hour. I donā€™t think that even comes close.

I donā€™t think that matters nearly as much as how competitive the realm is.

Is there much demand for gold on Pagle? Probably less than on Herod, or Sulfuras, or some other PvP realm with top guilds, Iā€™d wager.

There might be more people on Pagle (Iā€™m willing to accept that, but I donā€™t know for sure), but how many of them need gold? How many are raiding seriously? How many are PvPing?

I always got what you were saying, but comparing leveling in WoW to getting a college degree or serving in the Military is ridiculous. Get it?

Iā€™m not sure where you come up with the idea that you have to have multiple characters to remain competitive. I never played more then one character at a time to accomplish that.

:thinking:

How so?

Profession alts. Split raids. Summoning alts.

Youā€™re not even 1/15 in Naxx. Youā€™re demonstrably NOT competitive in the first place.

Not sure what point youā€™re trying to make. People playing on these realms are not necessarily sweaty, but there is more demand for gold due to raiding and PvPing being more of a focus thanā€¦ well, roleplaying.

Thereā€™s a plethora of non-sweaty players on Herod that are just raidlogging and swiping their credit cards to afford consumes instead of actually playing the game.

Do I really need to explain how leveling in WoW is not comparable to a College Degree or Military Service?

The only thing Profession alts do for your main is get you more gold. You are able to get enough gold on 1 character to remain competitive on it. I never played more then 1 character at a time and did it without issue. Split raids in for alts, if you want an alt, you can level it. If you want to spend the money on a boost then that is on you. Alts are not competitive and if they are for you, that is also your problem. You only need to have a lock to level 20 to summon and with flying mounts that is a none issue anymore. Also summon stones are in BC.

I havenā€™t played this warrior since BWL was release. If you notice the Lionheart helm and Truestrike shoulders I have on. I played an Ally Priest after, but quit Classic about 2 months into AQ40. Not that that matters, but your elitism is showing again.

Considering Iā€™m trying to make an argument against the logic youā€™re using, yes.

Aside from the painfully obvious, how are they different?

If by ā€œcompetitive,ā€ you mean clearing the content, sure. I donā€™t want to just clear the content.

Iā€™m talking about world firsts, both in progression and speed. It will be absolutely necessary to have a small army of profession alts pumping out materials to get your crafted BiS items ASAP to gain every advantage you can.

Then we also need tons of consumes, BoEs from world bosses (assuming we donā€™t just kill the bosses ourselves), etc.

Yes, but thatā€™s time spent leveling and not farming heroics, materials, or doing PvP for gear.

I donā€™t think you know what split raids are. Iā€™m talking about half mains half alts. Alts get no gear, and you funnel gear into those mains to get them geared faster so they can smash content more easily during speedruns. Itā€™s not ā€œfor alts.ā€ Itā€™s specifically NOT for alts. Thatā€™s the whole point. And having an instant 58 to boost any character I want to fill our split raid roster is a HUGE advantage.

Also, you realize youā€™re arguing AGAINST boosts with that statement, yeah? If you want to play TBC, you can just level a character.

True, but having that character at 58 makes it easier to obtain soul shards independently.

Also, flying doesnā€™t completely remove travel time. Just because we can fly doesnā€™t mean I INSTANTLY teleport to another part of the world.

When weā€™re continuing to raid AQ40 for Scarab Brooch and Badge of the Swarmguard, or Naxx for shoulder enchants and phylacteries, flying isnā€™t going to do ANYTHING for us.

Summoning stones donā€™t summon you to random spots in the world. And you still have to get to the stone in the first place. They might be useful for summoning people, but only once youā€™ve summoned the initial people needed to use them.

Your ignorance is showing again.

Nothing I said was elitist. Pointing out the fact that you are not competitive, thus your statement about being competitive with only one character is bunk, is not elitism.

I recall part of the charm of TBC was the ability to play new races in new zones. I expect many will be rolling fresh toons and playing them.

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In TBC Tempest Keep was so high in the air you could not see it from the ground. You could not summon a player to TKā€¦ the only way there was to fly.

If the boost is free or inexpensive almost everyone will use it even if they already have numerous alts. Iā€™m not against a one time boost but I think youā€™re wrong that only people who didnā€™t play classic will use it.

Seems like you know the answer to your own question.

All that just requires gold which you are able to get on one character. There is ZERO reason for you to need multiple characters. We are just going back to the part that you are unable to control yourself and will buy multiple accounts and boost for no reason while trying to disguise it as trying to remain ā€œcompetitiveā€. Sorry dude, you are just an idiot.

I know what a split raid is. Anyone that is that serious about raiding already has multiple 60s in Classic and will not need the boost. If you donā€™t have multiple 60s right now you either prove that I am right that you donā€™t need multiple characters to remain competitive, or you are not as serious as you think you are.

Iā€™m saying you can just level a Character instead of getting a 2nd account to boost which is something you said you will do uncontrollable. Do you get that now or did I need to keep on explaining everything I say?

With 280% flying it takes next to no time to get anywhere in Outland. If you need to buy a 58 boost just so you can summon someone in BT or anywhere else in the world just to save a little bit of time, then again, that is your problem. I havenā€™t played since AQ as stated before and people already have 20 locks posted all over Azeroth. Are they going to delete there 20 lock just so they can be summoned by a 58 lock? No I think not.

I explained why I have not done Naxx, which you either choose to ignore and your reading skills are so bad that you didnā€™t get it. But the fact that you are looking up my WoW progress on a character that I havenā€™t touched since the week BWL was released and comment on that shows how elitist you are and if you donā€™t understand that I really donā€™t know what to tell you.

I told myself I was going to be done with you a while ago but some of your comments are so dumb that I couldnā€™t help myself.

  1. I said I donā€™t think leveling in WoW is an achievement. I think itā€™s just a time sink. (Itā€™s an opinion that we can disagree on) You somehow read that and thought I said that getting a College Degree or serving in the Military is not an achievement. How the hell did you make that jump?

  2. You said that if boosting is in the game you will pay for it against your will. I said that is a problem for you to fix if you have zero self control. Then you started going off that you HAVE to boost to remain competitive in the game. You are just wrong. no you donā€™t. If you are that serious about WoW right now you already have multiple 60s ready for BC. If you donā€™t you either prove I was right about not needing multiple characters to remain competitive, or you are not as serious about this game as you think you are.

  3. I call you an elitist which you say you are not, but then proceed to look up my raiding progress. If you donā€™t understand how that is elitist, then you are just painfully dumb.

Letā€™s go back to my original post to get you back on topic, and if you are unable to do that then I am done with you. You complained about boosting because of the way bots will use it. All I said was that the issue isnā€™t boosting then, its botting.

Gold doesnā€™t speed up the cooldown. Even if youā€™re buying all of whatā€™s available in the market, it wonā€™t be enough to craft full sets for an entire raid within the first week.

Just because you donā€™t care about the reason doesnā€™t mean it doesnā€™t exist.

Iā€™m perfectly capable of controlling myself. You seem to misunderstand the fact that I am choosing to be competitive, and being competitive requires me to do this since everyone else will, as well.

You can assert over and over that alts are not necessary, but I think you seriously underestimate their value, especially early on in TBC.

Damn. Was fairly interesting talking to you, but if youā€™re just going to resort to insults, Iā€™ll be putting you on ignore.

My point was that the boost allows me to instantly swap to a different alt in the split raids. Saving several days worth of time not having to get 57 levels is tremendously beneficial for that purpose.

I have a Field Marshal Druid and a Grand Marshal Priest, so I just barely qualify for your multiple 60s statement. Through all of Classic Iā€™ve not been in a guild that requires alts for split runs. Itā€™s been a rather unpleasant and unsatisfying experience being strung along by people that advertise themselves as hardcore, but arenā€™t, so I intend to go even further in TBC.

However, Iā€™d like to point outā€¦ I hate leveling. So do most people. And thatā€™s why these boosts are such a huge problem. Having the leveling be such a huge deterrence serves as a barrier against those who arenā€™t willing to level multiple characters like I did. Like I said earlier:

And Iā€™m saying anyone who wants to play TBC can just level a character instead of getting an instant 58 boost.

Your dismissive response of ā€œjust level a characterā€ works AGAINST boosts.

Okay, so when we clear Black Temple, then need to go to Magtheridonā€™s Lair, then Gruulā€™s Lair, then The Eye, you think itā€™d be faster to fly than to have summoning alts and clickers ready at each of those spots? I doubt it.

Donā€™t forget we then go to Hyjal, then Karazhan, then Naxxramas, then Ahnā€™Qiraj if we still need Scarab Brooches, and if, ā€“ god forbid ā€“ we still need a Thunderfury for some reason, Molten Core. Flying in Outlands wonā€™t help us there.

It was one example of the uses for the boost.

And again, your incredibly dismissive responses can just be used against boosts.

ā€œIf you want to be level 70 so you can actually play the content you enjoy, thatā€™s your problem.ā€

Not sure why they would delete the ones they have. Thatā€™d be pretty dumb. But if they have a full account of summoning alts that they use, thereā€™s no reason not to boost one of them to 58.

Explaining why you arenā€™t competitive (and never were, even if we go back even to Molten Core) does not refute the fact you arenā€™t competitive, which is the whole point of me calling it out in the first place.

I donā€™t care why you arenā€™t competitive; I was simply saying you arenā€™t now, if you ever even were, so your statement about being competitive with one character is invalid.

Iā€™m not sure how many times I have explain what elitist actually means before you finally understand.

Theyā€™re all time sinks was my point, and saying ā€œitā€™s not an achievement; itā€™s a time sinkā€ is faulty logic. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

It can be an achievement and a time sink.

Also, I specified years of military service, though I sā€™pose the reason I did so was not clear, so Iā€™ll explain. Iā€™m not saying itā€™s at all on the same level (pardon the pun) as leveling in World of Warcraft, but the state of having served for X amount of years is nothing more than time spent.

I was also thinking of the benefits of serving in the military (as disproportionate as many would argue those may be), such as tuition.

Uh, no. The fact Iā€™m saying Iā€™ll do it very clearly means it is my will. More specifically, my will is to remain competitive, and I am willing to do things I donā€™t like to do so.

For what itā€™s worth, I hate leveling. I love boosts on a very shallow level, but I think theyā€™re bad for the game, and they do me more harm than good.

And the fix for people who donā€™t want to level is to stop being lazy. Therefore we should remove buffs.

I can easily just use your dismissive reasoning against boosts. Please try to provide a real argument for why boosts are good instead of using a lazy, dismissive response to everything.

Alright, bud. You are demonstrably wrong about that, but thereā€™s not much point continuing to prove it to you.

I do, actually.

But how many other people do? And how many people will solely because of this boost? Thatā€™s the point Iā€™m making.

Looking up your raid progress is not elitism.

Please, for the love of god, actually look up the definitions of elitist and elitism.

Donā€™t worry, Iā€™m done with you. Out of respect for the exchange of ideas, Iā€™m responding in full, but Iā€™ll be ignoring you from now on since you could not actually hold a conversation without resorting to insults.

Thatā€™s an incredibly naive way to look at it, though.

Use murder, for example. Murder is clearly a problem, and it is a problem that will continue to exist for the foreseeable future. If someone proposes something that will increase the rate of murder, or make murderers more effective, your logic of ā€œthe real problem is murderā€ is not a valid justification for that proposal.

I am saying that botting exists. Blizzard either cannot or will not ever do enough to stop it. Botters will use this boost to the extreme detriment of all legitimate players.

Unless you have a solution that is better than ā€œBlizzard should do something about the bots,ā€ Iā€™d rather go with the tangible, obtainable goal of ā€œdonā€™t add level 58 boosts.ā€

Yeah idk what heā€™s talking about. The logic in his argument is super weird.

Boosting will exist in tbc. Casuals and tourists will boost to 58 and slowly level through outlands to 70.

They will proceed to be absolutely steamrolled in virtually every facet of the game by the vast number of people who are able and willing to abuse boosting to gain advantages and outsweat any of the new players.

Then they will quit and we are left with a million profession alts, win trading alts, bot armies, split raid alts, and multiboxers.

Or you can finally be fed up with Blizzardā€™s abysmal lack of caring and go play on a private server.

Iā€™m tired of the bots, the herb famine, the gold buyers and everything else Classic has become.

Since WoD I played on private servers and had a great time. Itā€™s not a big deal for me to go back to doing just that.

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Given the 30% increase to leveling the boost is unnecessary.

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The weight of the money brought in by returning players, some of which didnā€™t sub during classic, but now will, is heavier than the negative impact from additional bots that will also use this.

Itā€™s simple logic if you follow the money. I donā€™t see this being any worse than classic already is. (from an inflation of the economy due to bots PoV.

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