both of them are more focused on demo/aff than destro, the hellcaller one I was hoping to be more destro oriented than aff but Jesus Christ it’s all pumping your dots and the only fun/relevant stuff was the capstone otherwise it’s just getting your dots bigger I hope this get re-done and destro gets more relevancy because right now its looks like the spec is getting shafted for another expa
12 Likes
That’s because what exactly is Destro?
It’s Chaos Bolts and Infernals.
How do you translate that into a Hero Talent that Affliction/Demo could use?
Hellcaller will be one DoT that will for the most part manage itself.
You’ll have to explain the “another expa” part. Destro was Godlike in SL and has been solid throughout DF. The biggest issues have been boo-hoo my tier set makes me pick up a 3rd spell to press
1 Like
Simple solution.
Replace Diablost base and capstones with
Chaos:
Instant cast- 1minute 30second CD
-
Destruction, Fire Chaos Bolts at all Targets effected by Immolate. Activating the ability will fire 3 chaos bolts at the target, # of chaos bolts is reduced based on immolates out. Caps out at 40% effectiveness and 8 targets.
-
Demonology, replaces Bile scourge bombers/Demonic Strength All active imps fire off a Felfire bolt and refresh 50% of their duration. Felfire bolts aoe 3yards around the target hit and deal reduced damage beyond 5 targets. (Demonic strength also activates when chaos is activated if Demonic strength is taken)
Capstone:
-
Immolationist - Chaosbolt spreads remaining Immolates at 50% duration to a nearby target, Increases targets Immolation hit with chaos bolt by 3seconds (16second cap)
-
Demonologist - Chaos now makes your imps gain attack speed, If Bile scourge Bombers is taken in the talent tree Chaos now pulls targets together.
20minutes of work, both specs gain something from it and both are diabolic in theme.
hit me up blizz, ill give you mid talents aswell
I mean Hellcaller works prefectly fine if you just read Wither as “Immolate”, given there is a ton of Immolate buffing talents for Destro, where having an instant cast Immolate that does alot of damage and can be customized to be eaten by Chaos Bolts, spread onto a ton of targets, etc, does kinda feel like destro.
I’d be curious how hard someone could go on making an Immolate build that capitalizes on this hero tree. 9sec duration super Immolate that you throw up before every chaos bolt to get eaten sounds kinda neat.
It obviously depends on balancing, but I think a lot of the damage will come from the acute version of the spell which wouldn’t be affected or consumed by the chaos bolt.
If things stay as is, you lose a fair bit of damage doing this on live. I know because its my preferred talent setup and I’ve tested it extensively. On paper it should have better burst, but the modifiers just aren’t good enough compared to putting out more chaos bolts. I don’t see how Wither would change this.
The overall problem is that Wither replaces Immolation. To get back on track Wither needs to be a new ability. This way we at least add to destruction as opposed to taking away.
1 Like
oh so, you want Destro to have more dots? no please lol the majority of takes on these pots are mindless but Jesus putting an extra dot on destro drops the ball, the tree does not fit and that is simply true, the tree seems powerful enough to be viable even top teir but again, current destro is the worse design spec in the game and still top teir so let’s not argue performance because that can be done by number tunning.
also, there’s only ONE talent that interacts with CB in our talent tree ONLY ONE so there’s no mysterious secret build who resolves all in pumping wither, there’s only 1 talent and that’s all
1 Like
You know what would work well, instead of calling it Wither, call it Fel Flame. Combine the dot with instant cast, and a small fel fireball that you can fire as mobile damage that refreshing your Immolate/Wither/Fel Flame dot.
For Warlocks that have been here awhile, imagine if you got Fel Flame back, it applied immolate, and did all the other stuff in this tree. You get the cool visual of throwing a green Fireball, a bit of something to hit when you need to be mobile, a super powerful Immolate or Corruption that can work with the stuff they made in this tree.
That seems like it would be ok and fit the theme for both Aff and Destro ok.
We get it, you’re upset, but these rants aren’t going to make anyone take you seriously.
I’d argue that Destruction is not the worst designed spec in the game. There are some that are definitely worse when it comes to rotations and gameplay.
Also what “one talent” talent are you referring to that interacts with Chaos Bolt? I assume that you’re referring to Malevolence in the new hero tree because we have many in our class tree. With that logic, affliction only has one talent that affects Unstable Affliction. Does that matter?
Destro was omega trash during the first two raids and only became op during arguably the worst raid they’ve ever released once you acquired 4 piece. To say that it was godlike in SL means you either didn’t play it or your brain is microwaved gas station sushi.
The spec has been pretty mid this xpac with a few highs in M+ but never enough to be meta outside of MDI. In raid, it’s had a fight or two that it did pretty well at each tier (Kurog, few fights in Ab, Council this tier) but has been grossly eclipsed by Demo. Looking back to the start of SL, there was 1 tier where Destro did better than Demo, which was Sepulcher, and even in that raid Demo was almost on level playing field (and actually did better on prog).
Let’s not put forward a bunch of Destro revisionism as if the spec has felt any sort of favorability in a long time. These ‘hero’ talent trees just showcase how much they lack direction with the spec.
2 Likes
Or your reading comprehension is just lacking.
I never stated they were Godlike for the entire expansion. An entire expansion runs the course of 2 years typically. There has to be some level of common sense assumed on the readers part.
They were Godlike for Season 3 onwards, Which was from March 1st 2022 right up until the end of Shadowlands, which if we want to say is the end of Season 4, was October 25th. That’s 7 months of being an S tier spec in all content.
So yes. Destro was Godlike in SL. They certainly were not shafted. If you believe otherwise you either didn’t play or your brain is air-fryed soup eaten out of a Styrofoam cup in the temporarily closed Disabled bathroom of At Home.
you deserve a short rant if you put an idea that’s totally out of the question like adding an extra dot for destro. I’m not even upset anymore with the tree I just role my mage as I had been I’m ok with it lol, but reading statements like " tree it’s awesome it makes your CB pump and " have so much synergy with destro tree bolts gonna hurt" make me question if we play the same spec or if they read the current destro talent tree, also reading “it’s ok you give Destro another dot” man you are missing the issue here feels like they’re trying to extinguish a fire with gasoline.
and they are referring to internal combustion that it’s the only talent that works well with this tree because it’s true your bolts are gonna be huge with this new dot and that’s creating a lot of new problems for the spec starting with we are lock into that talent if we wish to play hellcaller
also yes destro is the worst spec in the current game design and the talent tree is awful I don’t know if you had to play another spec but when you come back to destro you say hmm I’m piloting a guy in a wheelchair, same could be said for aff but I think aff is even in a worse state than destro
also, let me clarify this, Hellcaller Talent Tree its the strongest tree I have seen so far for all the specs I believe that if this thing goes live like it is it’s gonna be broken as hell so I’m not arguing mechanics in here
1 Like
Ah yes, lemme infer you meant a tiny block of an xpac with situational contingencies in the worst raid ever and a [fake] raid tier (fated) so bad it was largely ignored. Great time to be strong. Imagine being so dense.
Destro and Aff have continued to get shafted, so yes, “another expa” for sure. Likewise Aff being broken in CN doesn’t excuse them being in an awkward rut for years. Thematically, Hellcaller misses the Destro mark so hard so it’ll have to coast by on tuning.
There’s a reason people are calling for a rework, and it’s not because we’re favored.
2 Likes
Past performance is never a good reason for something to be bad or overpowered at present. Even if Destruction was S++ tier for the last however long (it hasn’t been, but pretend), it’s not like someone picking up destro for the first time today is benefitting from that. Past seasons are done, how good or bad any spec was should be irrelevant. No spec should be punished for being good before, or rewarded for being bad.
That said, I think the thematics of Hellcaller and Destro will come down to how good Blackened Soul feels once we get our hands on it. If you’re constantly pumping out huge explosions from spamming direct damage, it might feel better.
If Blackened Soul is just a little fart visually that barely contributes to your damage, then it definitely isn’t something Destro is going to get excited about.
1 Like
It’s not even really an extra dot. It replace immolate with a different dot, so the overall amount stays the same. The secondary effect which is the acute version is likely going to be mostly automated and require little to no effort on our part.
I’ll have to go through the various threads again because this is one thing that I haven’t seen people really comment on. I’ve heard some people discuss the impact on stuff like Internal Combustion, but that’s it. I don’t think it will really affect Internal Combustion at all.
I’m not sure why you’re saying that it’s true that our Chaos Bolts will be huge because the acute version and the stacks on Wither will not impact the normal DoT part of Wither at all which is what Internal Combustion consumes. That’s just not how it works.
No, destruction is not the worst designed spec in the game. Have you seen arcane mage and the flow chart that’s required to play it? And wait, you just said that “destro is the worst spec” but that you think “aff is even in a worst state than destro”? So you’re just contradicting yourself in the same sentence?
Based only on limited tool tip info that has no actual baseline damage for the unique abilities. As for arguing mechanics, it doesn’t seem that you grasp some of them based on what you said above.
ok, I guess the Blizz forum it’s not a place to have this kinda conversation with people, you for sure lack the foresight to understand the power behind this tree and why could be strong or broken depending on tunning, I’m just gonna tell you that if you are interested in why I’m telling you this first understand the spec then read the whole tree, then again read your spells and understand what makes destro, Destro then we may talk a bit.
destro and Aff are kinda of paired with the worse design in the game, but destro wins just cause the Talent Tree is garbage, the Aff tree is good, and I lean toward Aff because I may be biased with destro even if I play all 3 specs at the same level.
also, there’s nothing to assume, everything is pretty clear in that talent tree the only thing that needs to be clarified is if it’s RoF procs blackened soul that pretty much should. also if the “acute” version of the dot increases its dmgs or just ticks faster, and there’s a talent that gives you 100% dmgs to wither so you pair that with IC and you get HUGE bolts just HUGES does not matter if bolts hit for 1 pair with that node it’s gonna be 1+1000000000000000000.
in before you come here and tell me “You don’t know that because you don’t know how hard the dots gonna hit yet! There is no alpha or info!” bro plz read ahead the tree is based on this thing, this dot is being built to be a giga omega dot, if the dot ticks for nothing the whole tree fails and needs tunning, they aim for this spell to be insanely strong.
again the tree is super strong, but it needs to be re-done because I’m a destro lock and I don’t like buffing and micro-managing a dot, I don’t want dots at all, and as for aff this tree does more for destro than aff so there’s nothing wrong with re-doing it
also if u plan on telling me “It’s hard to make a destro/aff tree hybrid” no it is not it’s fairly easy, the dot was the right choice because they both share a dot that needs to be apply on everything, after that you forget about buffing that dot instead you make the dot buff destro spenders or gives you stats or proc talents or infernals idk there’s a lot you may do for this dot to proc like when its become acute it explodes giving you a stack and when u reach X stack you enhance your next CB to be AoE or your incinerate turns into shadow flame and deals X amount of dmgs generating X shards and buffing your next spender by X idk there’s a pretty much room for imagination in that area, for aff just make it buff its spenders like big raptures big drain souls big haunts and that’s all, we got that before and plenty of ppl like it, if you don’t like that playstyle for aff well no problem you got ANOTHER TREE for aff, Destro has nothing else so suck it
You keep contradicting yourself. You repeatedly have said destruction has the worst design in the game and then swapped to affliction.
The equivalent of 5 extra seconds of Immolate/Wither damage wouldn’t increase the damage of Chaos Bolt that much, maybe 15%? The other problem with this is that you’re going to be casting nothing but Wither and Chaos Bolt, which is unsustainable due to a lack of shard generation. That ability that increases Wither damage by 100% also only gives it a 9 second duration. Chaos bolt plus the cast time of Chaos Bolt would eat up ~7 seconds of that 9 second duration, so you’d immediately have to recast Wither. That’s not sustainable at all, not to mention you’d be giving up damage from other sources by constantly having to reapply Wither.
I thought you weren’t a fan of the DoT originally because destruction isn’t about DoTs and doesn’t need another DoT? Also all of the suggestions you made could potentially happen, but they are just suggestions and may never be implemented.