I think I see the problem with retail now and shall answer my question from my previous post. The real problem from the looks of it is how lame and repetitive endgame content can get, besides that, game’s good. The reason I never understood this is because I play so many other games besides WoW. It all feels so forced and you feel so restricted in retail endgame, while with Classic you are as free as can be. Sure, Classic kinda also reverts back to doing the same thing every week, but you won’t fall behind if you don’t do it for a bit, I think. Also in Classic every raid has meaningful gear, the raids themselves are just different difficulties. Meanwhile, in retail, all you can really do on a new character is climb the ladder of iLvl until you can do the newest raid, then do that for the best gear (this is all assuming you even want to raid). I’m sure there’s more I could say but I’m tired of typing and might just go play WoW now that I think about it
Honestly, the reason is going to vary from person to person, even if many people can agree on one or two things. There is no “one size fits all” answer for a question like this. It’s the culmination of many things, over a somewhat long period of time. It isn’t just specific to this expansion either.
bingo, bango.
Just watched allcraft and Asmon said it best
What content do you expect when you only hire Theorycrafters and High-End players.
No.
I don’t do any ‘end game’ content and there are still a ton of reasons why the game is only a shade of what it once was. There are lots of players who never step foot in a raid or dungeon and still enjoy the game. I would assume there are more players that don’t raid than do. Lots of people just like PvP or questing or leveling or farming or doing pet battles or just play the game as a social outlet.
If anything, that IS why the game is suffering. So much focus is put on raids that a huge portion of players honestly don’t care about.
There’s so many people who say that Raiding is the point of the game. Literally I remember seeing so many posts who argue that raiding is the true purpose of the game.
Honestly I typed this from the perspective of a raider, but really, I’m not one (even though I want to raid). Now that I think about it, from the stance of a solo player I guess, Classic is better. Unless you REALLY want to do PvP, then I’d think Retail is better for solos. I say this because in Classic (max lvl) PvP you’re probably gonna be stomped by people with raid gear. Really idk what to think about all of this anymore.
Current game[1] isn’t bad. Isn’t really good either. It just is.
I accept it for what it is, and have opted to invest my time doing stuff I want to do while ignoring almost everything else. Works for me.
Each of us has to decide what works.
[1] It used to be a world. Now it’s a game. It’s a good game, but it’s just a game.
In other words, the only thing that matters in classic is raiding, but the raids themselves aren’t rewarding.
they are rewarding, but it’s not like you’re gonna fall behind if you take a break. It could be your first raid on a character and you could get a BiS item for your spec.
You could, meanwhile 90%+ of the rest of the team gets nothing.
And if you did get something, it’s warrior gear with spirit on it or some nonsense.
Whoops. I slid into the wrong room. Sorry, oh. Wait. That’s you. Understanding negativity never works. Just an fyi !
well what should I do?
Sort of but not exactly?
So, for example, RBGs are end game content but people have been running those for almost a decade. The same BGs, for the same rewards (essentially), forever.
But, in retail, to do RBGs, you need to do your renown, korthia to t6 to get the juicy OP verse sockets, torghast for legos that are different depending on the map you are on, conduits because some of them impact your burst window which is crucial, and ILV that came entirely from mythic+ in BFA and in this season is a mix of ranked PvP and raid (weapon effects are strong, dommy mommy gems are strong).
But who wants to do all of that only to go into the worst LFG finder ever built and see 99 “WTS rating RBGS” advertisements and 1 actual team that’s only looking for healers?
There’s too much stuff between you and the end game you want to do.
That’s rich coming from him.
Personally I think the negativity issues stems from two things:
-
WoW has a very large focus on what I’ll call “ranked” content. Whether it’s raids, PvP, or Mythic+… any content you do offers an escalating challenge with a binary pass/fail metric. For each type of content, you’re supposed to keep escalating your rank until you can no longer pass without getting better, whether getting better means getting better gear or becoming a better player.
-
When “ranked” content is the most important thing, that means players care A LOT about things that would give them an edge in that ranking. That’s partly why I think WoW players talk a lot more about class balance compared to other MMOs. It’s more important in WoW since if your class is “worse” then another, it’s more difficult to get a higher “rank” and reap the rewards that involves.
Personally I think that the community would be much happier if they stopped letting the meta define their play style or if they stopped letting their ability to complete raids or dungeons be the defining feature of their play. It tends to make it so that if a style of play isn’t “optimal” then it must be incorrect. That’s how you end up with specs or talents that are only a couple % behind the pack getting laughed out of raids as though they couldn’t complete even the simplest of content. The community in general has a problem where 99% of the playerbase thinks it’s in the top 1%.
The trouble is, if you’re not doing “ranked” content, there’s not really anything to do. It takes what? Two hours each week to complete the story? Are we going to farm dailies for no reason to raise our rep? Of course not. If the player’s responsibility is to stop taking the theorycrafters’ word as gospel then WoW’s responsibility to to make more content where “rank” doesn’t matter and that is fun independent of that. If I may be allowed to invoke the forbidden name, this is what FF14 does VERY well. WoW is much better at ranked content. Their combat system is more in-depth and their encounter design is significantly more interesting. But content where people have something to lose breeds negativity. FF14 on the other hand is fantastic about content you can complete at your own pace independent of anyone else and people who are not interested in chasing the very top will do much better there. But I think there’s no reason we can’t have both and I would love for both games to learn from each other.
Classic, yeah, you can totally fall behind. Try starting TBC a year from now or vanilla, well now. You can fall behind in any mmo I came into TBC the first time so late I couldn’t find anything suitable to do at cap and it wasn’t until wrath that I actually played for real.
What a nonsensical question, and umm, you don’t realize what you just did! Lol 
What the heck are ya doing? Putting end game down is fine. Retail? And Classic is great…definitely wrong room.
The best way to describe retail WoW is that it’s an MMO first and an RPG second.
People point out that classic is a solved game, but the reality is so is retail in its own way. The systems are always reworked, but the content uses the same formula because the game is designed logically now so the burdens of an RPG have been stripped away in the name of balance and ease of access.
I also think that the age of the game has hurt retail in a lot of ways though and that’s not Blizzard’s fault. When I play classic I go and farm aldor rep or quests or herbs or motes because they are valuable and my gold is limited. When I play retail it’s hard to bother caring about dumping 10k into consumables over farming them because my gold stockpile is massive and regaining it is nothing difficult.
Well I’m glad you see part of the iss-
Aaaaand you lost the plot.