I’ve timed a single +16 key for Lower Kara. I know it’s doable, but it’s the outlier in at least 20 different pugs that I’ve ran with the last few weeks. If I timed even half of those runs I wouldn’t be calling for more tuning, but when 19/20 runs have someone that ragequits, I think the dungeon needs work.
You invis past the backstage stuff as well as skip Zulgy, play the Firelands trash (don’t be bad), play the rest of the trash in the big room for 2 stacks of Dreadlord, play the Ushers now that they give a cracked amount of forces, kill the mobs on the balcony, then jump down and do the trash in Moroes room.
Then later in the instance we just skip all of the Maiden trash before we do her.
Alternatively, if you have Shroud or people with invis belt, you do the same stuff but you skip the Ushers and then after Moroes you also skip past the kitchen into the upper stables and play trash there for %.
The key word there is “I”. It’s only a problem because you can’t do it.
People need to learn the mechanics. Too many jump key levels. There have been many people on the forums complaining about tuning, but when they shared logs it was clear they were just standing in bad and dying to avoidables or not understand the mechanics at all.
So you use 2 invis skips? I don’t think Zulgamux is that bad, 6% is pretty nice. I’m able to pull everything after Opera up to, but not Zulgamux, and kill them on the stage. Then kill Zulgamux and his 1 add.
People also fail lower because they don’t know the goal of the dungeon - to try to get many Dreadlord stacks efficiently.
This suicide and go to Moroes strat is super dumb because it’s literally anti-win. You are intentionally losing in order to lose even harder. It’s literally the absolute worst thing you could do short of just immediately dropping group after you kill Opera, lol.
Big BDK dog shared a route that I like, yes there’s a ton of invis skips so it isn’t as good for PUG, but the more PUG friendly route you just don’t skip the Ushers and therefore you also don’t skip into the upper stables - you play the Ushers and then you don’t play upper stables and just do the lower stables trash before Attunmen.
People just haven’t caught on that Ushers are cracked for % now.
Like, 1 pair of Ushers is about as many forces as the entire Maiden hallway.
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There are so many “bads” to stand in and avoidables, though, and they’re incredibly punishing even at lower key levels. I’d expect the difficulty out of a +20, but not a 10-15 key.
I suspect “the DPS could have been better” is the crux of the matter here. I did a +17 Lower Kara last night, and we just breezed through it (with one oopsie total wipe thanks to an accidental overpull in the room before Moroes). Ended up +2ing the key, too. Blood DK, arms warrior, outlaw rogue, demo lock, and myself on resto shaman. ilvls in the high 280s/low 290s (both myself and my demo lock partner are 288 ilvl). On Maiden of Virtue, the tank actually just sat the boss in fire (one got weirdly dropped vertically on the pillars lol), and the warrior spent the whole time with their butt in it. On Moroes, the last two adds broke out together. So it’s not like things went perfectly, but it still felt a million times smoother than the first time I went in on a +15 week one.
Did they remove the healer debuff cleanse mechanic from Attumen? He didn’t cast it even once the entire fight last night. xD
[edit] LOTS of avoidable damage in Lower Kara, so that can make a huge difference in how the place feels, too. Make use of those interrupts/stuns/etc and move your feet!
They did remove it.
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Oh god, I’m glad I’m not going insane! Haha. That’s a little sad. Would have been nice if they’d just made the purple guy a little easier to see. But oh well I guess. xD
To be honest I never ever fought the ushers.
After killing Opera we suicide, res and go the other way and kill huntsman, Moroes and then make our way to last boss.
Opera last week was a necrofrost delight with 2 constant targets for ramping up.
This is a really bad strat, and you’re sacrificing a lot of potential damage that will make Moroes 1000x easier. I can’t stand it when pugs I’m in do this ugh. If you want to skip the Ushers, you still can, while going through the “normal” path after Opera, but you get a lot more buff stacks.
It’s significantly more efficient though. The buffs aren’t worth it with the amount of time it takes to go the normal route imo.
Regarding the OP, at this point it’s really just a mechanics issue I think. There are a lot of important kicks and stops in Kara, more so than all the other dungeons. There is also a ton of crap to dodge. We scuffed a 22 by a couple minutes last night, but we also had people getting clapped repeatedly or not interrupting important spells.
As an FYI to anyone running keys - if the word “Volley” is in the spell - you should probably kick it. Those things be hurting 
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Had a group yesterday that timed a 13 Lower and that was a wild ride. Tank was good about letting us know when big pulls were incoming, but even with CD’s and the such, we still racked up 30 deaths total.
But yeah, some pulls were crazy. Something happened in th pull after the Opera boss where we were somehow getting NPC’s pulled through the walls with no LoS, that was fun.
Just felt good to finally complete it in time, the 230G repair bill be damned!
I ran an 18 last night and we facerolled to victory. Used the ol’ Legion route too. The nerfs made this place a joke.
They are worth though. Top players kill them. They’re absolutely worth. The only one not worth is Zulgy because we don’t need her forces, her forces aren’t efficient, and we can’t pull her into anything else to make her worth.
We go out of our way to try to get Dreadlord buffs as long as we can get them in a reasonable manner.
Idk maybe in higher keys, low 20s though I don’t feel like you really need the buffs. It’s more of a run clean angle, and wiping makes the route a lot faster (or at least it seems like it does).
Key to success in Lower is to stack hunters, but you didn’t hear it from me 
Most of the “bads” are casted and able to be interrupted either through soft interrupt or hard stun. Good groups will constantly use all utilities, aoe stuns, disorients, ect pre-emptively.
I did a +22 Streets with a Resto shaman, with earth elemental legendary, who never used his earth elemental.
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