Just boosted an enhance shaman. I don’t understand the meta behind putting windfury weapon on both weapons if you also need to sync your weapons to keep windfury from proccing on the offhand weapon. If you’re syncing your weapons, then offhand will never proc because it hits within the 0.5s proc CD. So it is literally doing nothing.
Or does the proc work with either weapon so by putting windfury weapon on both you’re just increasing the chance from 20% to 40% and forcing it onto your mainhand by syncing to ensure the offhand is landing during the CD?
The purpose of syncing is having your main hand leading and increasing your chances on that weapon proccing WF. Your off hand can still proc given it still has the enchant on it, but the chances I believe are 60/40? Can’t remember the numbers off the top of my head, but yeah focusing on weapon stagger is easy dps gain.
When you have WF on both weapons, your chance to proc is actually increased to 36%. This is because there is a 3 second ICD on WF procs, meaning many swings will not be eligible to proc WF, so the proc RATE ends up at 20% despite the chance on any given swing outside the ICD being 36%.
Your OH can still proc if your MH doesn’t. The stagger just helps your MH WF procs not get blocked by the ICD from OH WF procs. You can totally still get unlucky though.
I think you and others in the thread are conflating two different things.
Shamans want to both SYNC and STAGGER their weapons, both those are two different things you do for two different reasons.
You’re describing staggering. You do this because there is a 3 second cooldown on Windfury. By staggering (ensuring your MH is ever so slightly ahead of your OH) you try to improve the odds of your MH receiving the WF proc when the CD is up (because it will always “roll” your chance to proc on the MH before the OH.)
This is important for maximizing your dps, but overall much less so than
Syncing. Which is the other, similar concept, but which has nothing to do with windfury at all. To Sync your weapons, you simply want both of them hitting within .5s of each other. The reason for this is because you can’t “consume” more than 2 flurry charges in .5s, even though you will continue to gain the benefit of the increased attack speed. So if your weapons both hit within .5s of each other, each 5stack of flurry gives you 5 “MH + OH swings,” vs 5 “MH OR OH swings” if they’re not synced because both the MH and OH will be consuming charges. This allows us to hit near 100% uptime on the 30% (35% with T5) haste buff which is pretty massive for overall dps.
I know its a little complicated but does that make sense? Basically just make sure MH hits slightly before OH and both hit within .5s of each other.
An unlisted quality of putting WF on both weapons is it increases the proc chance to 36%, so that AFTER losing some procs to internal cooldowns, it still works out to be 20%.
Syncing/staggering properly means that you effectively get that benefit but it still mostly procs from your mainhand.
A lot of people once read some math that they never understood, and then just repeated it.
Having WF on both weapons DOES NOT increase the individual swing proc rate. What it does is make the odds that AT LEAST ONE of your two swings will proc WF, 36%. (This is a very simple probability calculation - odds of no proc on two swings is 0.8 * 0.8, or 0.64. If the odds of not occurring is 64%, then the odds of occurring is 36%.)
WF on both hands is simply because even an offhand WF proc is better than any of our other weapon imbue options. Even with the cooldown preventing your MH from proccing on its next swing; it’s only 20% odds, it probably wasn’t going to anyway.
As for speed matching, that’s because of Flurry. It does not give you two swings per charge. It gives you a fourth swing per proc, instead of the normal three. Additionally, having speed matched does make it marginally more likely that a WF proc will be MH, because when your weapons hit at the same time, MH damage is always calculated first.
You were nailing it right up until here. It does give you an extra swing per charge because one of the swings wont consume a charge.
And you match speeds because if you don’t your weapons desync and without constantly resyncing you’ll eventually lose both your sync and stagger. When MH damage is calculated has nothing to do with anything. Staggering implies your weapons are just that… staggered. Not hitting at the same time. You want the MH to hit and a millisecond later for your OH to hit, thus improving the odds of that proc hitting the MH. That’s why you have generally have to sync at least once a fight even if you stay in range and you’re matched, at the very beginning to stagger from both hitting at the same time.
Granted I haven’t tested on the most recent BCC patches but it should still be able to consume two charges for two swings, you just get the fourth one because it swings two at a time.
If it actually isn’t consuming two charges, when there are two left, then neat, that’s a new BCC bug.
As for syncing: Yes, that’s what I was trying to say. If your weapons are synced, then the MH damage is calculated first (technically, the MH doesn’t actually hit first, but when things happen at the same time computers have to calculate one at a time, and MH gets priority), which means the MH will have the first chance to proc WF.
The average will sum to 20% over infinite time. That’s how math works. That doesn’t mean that it gets 36% chance per swing per hand. EJ is wrong.
(The only time it worked like that was for a brief period after BC release, when attacking with one hand had a chance to proc WF on either hand. And in turn a WF proc from Hand A could proc WF from Hand B, because they had separate cooldowns. It was hilarious and amazing and it got hotfixed pretty fast.)
This I may have been wrong on. I’m describing the way it worked on original BC, but apparently BCC may work differently and I haven’t tested it recently.
Not that it really matters, but I will trust them over a forum rando any day. Especially one who has already admitted to being wrong in this thread.
“Analysis of the combat log shows that if you sum all hits, the proc rate while DWing is 20%, but that includes hits you make while inside the 3 second cooldown, which cannot actually proc WF. When you remove the ineligible hits the observed proc rate from the eligible hits becomes 36%.”
I still dont think you’re quite following. Syncing and staggering are two different things. Syncing only affects Flurry. It doesn’t affect Windfury at all. If you run in and attack with a set of matched weapons both your attacks are hitting at the same time and its a coin flip as to whether WF procs on the MH or OH. Staggering means exactly that, staggering so that your MH weapon technically IS hitting first…
Syncing refers to how far apart your weapons swing and affects the number of charges/uptime for flurry.
Staggering refers to which weapon is hitting first and affects the weapon most likely to receive the WF proc
Ironically, I’m pretty sure the error you’re making here is a result of a misunderstanding.
Blizzard noticed without changing anything under the hood, having an offhand weapon get windfury would eat potential procs due to the internal cooldown. So they artificially boosted the proc rate up to 36% when wf is on both weapons, BECAUSE with procs getting eaten they would arrive at the original 20%.
Yea basically this. By artifically increasing the percentage only when WF is on both weapons they ensured that its 20% as it should be when one weapon is enchanted, and 20% OVERALL when both weapons are enchanted to compensate for procs lost due to the 3s ICD.
