And, for whatever reason, Blizzard might be under the assumption that is not true with flex mode, like would a 10 man group have the exact same version as one with 20?
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that seems pretty unlikely. picture a 20-person fight where 5 ground puddles that need to be soaked spawn. how do you scale that for 11 people? obviously you can’t have 2.75 puddles spawn. do you just have 5 (unfair to the small group)? do you round down to 2? up to 3?
and then, once you’ve made that decision, how do you compare that difficulty to the ‘original’ fight as designed for 20?
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This is another reason why I think flex across a smaller range is the answer for M+. like soaking 5 puddles could easily be done with 18-19, and 21-22 would give you a back up soak.
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abilities like the Lich King’s Valkyr drive their difficulty from the precise stacking of the mobs as a preparation for the cleave.
in a lower raid size there is only one add, making the fight step trivial.
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right, but then you’ve lost the “same encounter difficulty for everyone” feature.
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But fact is you could always go in with less then the number/max but it would not always scale down.
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Who knows, if they make it flex, smaller groups can give it a shot that wouldn’t do it otherwise. At the same time, revisiting worse raids than the current one isn’t all that exciting.
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they’ll complain about having to bring certain classes and not having the make-up fit in their 12man raid.
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Eh sounds like elitist sweatlord problems
no, those guys find a way to get it done.
it’s the scr00bz0rz that get hardstuck on easy bosses.
Hahaha aint that the truth
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The number of puddles, valkyrs, etc. problem is a real consideration, but in many cases can be mitigated by scaling the damage done or the DPS required to deal with the mechanic at scale, i.e. there is only one valkyr for 10, but it has comparatively more HP than the three that would spawn for 25. That introduces balance problems of their own, and is no solution when puddles require immunities to manage.
There are alternative designs that can scale though, and we have all seen that the sky is the limit in terms of mechanics they’ll try out.
there’s also the al’akir type of spacing problems… here they chose to flex phase 1 on their own even if there was no flex mode… one minute into the video.
Oh yeah didnt they have like 8 people just standing behind a pillar on a different platform
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So is the number of Freedoms and Master’s Calls you need to break roots on Tindral, but Blizzard designed the fight that way anyway instead of complaining about “design constraints” or whatever.
Yeah. I feel like they haven’t been very thoughtful about who they’re really designing mythic encounters for.
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Flex will never happen, or if it does, it won’t be this mode, it will be something slightly above heroic.
Knowing how many people are in a fight, generally how many DPS, how many healers – that all works towards knowing how many mechanics will go out. How much damage intake there is, HP that adds/boss has, how many interactions between mechanics/effects on the battlefield.
What if you add a dps, does the fight do more damage, or does it just increase HP of things? You either have a fight that is harder on healers, or things become easier. Everyone will just game it.
What if there are X mechanics that go out, and it makes sense given 20 people, but if you add 1 or remove 1, does that scale?
There’s way too many moving parts to make it work with how Mythic feels today.
I remember when flex first came out and some mechanics outright didn’t appear until you had at least a certain number of people. For that reason we would often cap the raid at, for example, 14 people. Or 21. Or whatever. It almost never worked out exactly fair for any raid size and quite often resulted in unintended increased or decreased difficulty.
Like it or not, mythic being tuned to an exact number of players means they don’t have to worry about scenarios like that.
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i think that’s the other thing people aren’t considering here. people will very quickly determine the “ideal” group size for every fight. look in group finder now and you’ll see a bunch of “2/4/9” raid groups for heroic. whether it’s accurate or not, that’s what people have decided is ideal.
flex mythic would end up exactly the same. “we have to bench people because we have more than 20” will turn into “we have to bench people because 17 is the easiest for this fight” (for example)
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Why would it be necessary to scale the number of mobs rather than the relative health pool of both val’kyr? As long as there are a reasonable number of dps capable of breaking the captive players free, then nothing has to change.
What needs to remain constant is the relative amount of dps required versus the expected damage of those in raid with the dps role.