Not having solo queue is just BS

OK, just to state a few things before I begin:

  1. I’m multi-glad in multiple expansions, I’ve been playing the game on and off for 16 years.
  2. 8 years ago when I was in college, my 3s team reached 2900 and was once ranked 2nd in Taiwanese server.
  3. I studied game programming/design for my master’s degree and I worked as a game designer for 3 years after graduation, after that I switched to work as an engineer.

Not trying to brag about anything, just want to say that I know what I’m talking about, and I don’t want to waste people’s time for reading this post, that’s all.

Now let’s address the solo queue issue.

The major argument is that the whole PVP system is so complicated/unbalanced, it’s not going to work for solo queue, this is also what Ion was saying.

Well, it’s simply not true. Any difficult tasks or even those seemingly impossible ones can be addressed by great game design, that’s a fact.

Now let’s take a step back, and imagine that we’re just going to use a random paring system for the solo queue, just like the Arena skirmishes.

Is it crazy? Yes, it is. It’s very likely that you’ll be paired with people with bad gears, that don’t play PvP or even AFKs. But guess what, so are your opponents. Eventually, the good players, those who defy the odds and capable of pulling off 1v2s, those who are extremely resilient stay positive, will climb. And that’s a fact.

This is also what the early ranking system of DotA/LoL looks like. The only improvement is that they only pair you with similar rating players, but you would often end up in a game where all 5 players only play top lanes/support roles for example. But it worked, and that’s the point.

Now you have a system that “kinda” works, how do we improve it? Well, just a few ideas:

  1. Pairing players with similar rankings, this is obvious.
  2. You can choose to queue for 2s or 3s.

Now the system works better, how do we further improve it? Just an idea:
You can choose the specs you want to play with, but need to choose at least a few to speed up the queue times.
For example, as a BM hunter queuing to 2s, I would love to play with a feral druid, holy/disc priest, resto druid/shaman, etc.
The system would try to respect your choices but would eventually ignore them as the queue time getting longer, and you would also get a rough queue time estimate for those choices, so you might want to relax the choices a little bit if the queue time gets too long.

And this is exactly what the other games with a good ranking system did.

I guess my point is, non of those ideas are novel, it’s been done times and times again in other games, it just that the game designers need to really think about how to solve the hard problem, instead of complaining about how complicated the system is, because the truth is, it’s not that complicated.

But it’s been 14 years and we still have a system that, when the arena queue pops, there are no 8 secs ready check for all the players, like what the other games have, so you would often end up in a game that missing a player.
Is adding a ready check that hard? no it isn’t, one of the games we made in two weeks had that. This just shows how they’re unwilling to make the system better, and not having a solo queue sounds like an execuse for not wanting to tackle the hard problem.

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Now we’re back to this? Give it a rest. Don’t need solo queue

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Yeah I would love a SoloQ

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Sure, good players will climb more than bad players will. But it is also possible that players with good RNG that get good partners will climb more than players with bad RNG will. Introducing that level of RNG to competitive play would be very frustrating. And when we get into super high ratings, games essentially become a coin flip-- whoever gets the more passable comp wins.

And people complain about it all the time, btw. Also, two completely different games, so citing this doesn’t really help your point.

It’s been done in games that aren’t WoW though.

So yeah, I’ve only addressed one issue with your proposed solo queue implementation, but the potential of a whole slew of issues is there. Solo queue would also destroy more RPG elements of WoW, it negatively impacts the community, philosophically, there’s an issue that the highest end game PVP content is queueable in that nature, etc.

Soloqueue just doesn’t work in WoW.

What are you looking to get out of solo q that you don’t currently get out of skirmishes?
Genuine question. MMR-similar skill, the ability to find people to play with, gear rewards?

Honestly, climbing a ladder and playing healer/dps 2s. Skirms dont have that at all.

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my point is that designing a solo queue a difficult task that requires tremendous effort to make it work, not to simply borrowing everything from LoL/Dota, but guess what, I would argue that LoL/Dota is actually harder to design a perfect solo queue, and that’s my point of citing it, to prove that complex system can be designed and improved to perfection.

And I completely agree with you on the RNG, but the funny thing about RNG is, if you play enough games, eventually, you’ll climb to a place you belong, it’s like tossing a coin 1000 times, you’ll get close to 50% head. That’s why I said resilience is important here, a mechanically good player with bad mental is not a good player overall.

Sure people will complain, and no matter how perfect the system is.

And again, i’m not proposing a complete system here, it’s not possible, definitely not from a post. What i’m saying is, you can start from a simple solution, and iterate on top of it, eventually you’ll get a almost perfect system that most people like.

But the problem is, the dev simply won’t put any effort into it.

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The major concern for solo Q I think is the Q time. I mean if the formula is 2 dps 1 healer for 3s Q, once you got above like 1900 you would sit a 17 min Q for a healer.

Ppl say “well we do that already!” Well yes but that’s with the added bonus of being able to vet applicants and play more than 1 game with them

“But if the comp works, just keep queueing as a team!” Well you remove one of the healers from the Q, further compounding the wait time.

Also, this is all after you realize that healers don’t need solo Q, only DPS do. A lower Cr healer will not sit in LFG for any amount of time

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You only talked about one of the minor issues with solo que.

Let’s talk about specifically que times. Lol had to force a two role selection system because que times were stupid as everyone plays the same thing.

You can’t force someone in wow to play the support role. Do you know what que times would be for dps at high ratings? Dps que times with no rating restrictions in PvE is already 30+ minutes. Now add trying to match rating to that. So you wait 30 minutes for a que to pop and gett a terrible comp or toxic people. Sounds fun.

Secondly, what do you do with the current 3v3 ladder? Combine them? Two seperate ladders? Combine them and the organized groups will have insane advantages. If you’re seriously pvping this will be the only option. Okay seperate? So now you seperate an already tiny player base and watch que times climb even higher.

Rocket League had solo que and a joint que system. Guess which one they got rid of. People like playing with friends. We don’t need solo que, we need an improved lfg system and less barriers to entry so we actually get some pvpers back instead of losing population endlessly.

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I don’t think you’re going to get that out of solo q either

A healer in 2s has their pick of the litter in lfg

I just don’t see an incentive for a healer in solo q

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then

kapoowy. I think you could make plays no matter what you’re doing in skirms, but some comps will be better and some may have no synergy. There are also 12 classes with 36 specs in total, gonna be hard to completely balance that esp with the bliz logic that some specs should be more equal than others because of it being their turn.

idk I don’t think solo qs will be good, it’s just way better to q with a coordinated group and work hard towards finding a group of people that you enjoy qing with instead of solo qing.

Yeah, you’re probably right. My friends list all unsubbed a long time ago for this season. So to play now I sit in LFG and take whoever is close enough. Most of the time it doesnt work out well, and I’m back to LFG. It seems so tedious for such a mediocre experience. If there was solo queue maybe the wait wouldn’t be so long at least.

Queuing with pvp friends who know what they’re doing and dont mind hopping in voice is a totally different experience than LFG. That is really what I crave. A quick way to play games with people who are of a similar skill level. LFG just takes so damn long. I decided to roll healer just to be able to play again.

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Completely irrelevant but congratulations on your success.

We need something. What are your suggestions?

Why not? You never gave a reason

Healer/DPS solo queue doesn’t appeal to me at all. I would take ranged/melee solo queue first.

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Yes I did, here are specific reasons that I listed:

And my other reason, which, I guess I could clarify, stems from what I say here:

Basically, soloqueue would greatly degrade the quality of arena matches. This is because WoW arena is very comp dependent and very team-oriented.

Playing with LFG when there’s so many boosters in LFG tab is a disaster actually. Solo Queue is needed.

This is exactly what it is , blizzard will never intend to do something good in pvp, WOW stands top tier MMORPG list even only with PVE . Even if PVP is removed in this game, they don’t lose too much benefits. Why i can say like that? i like pvp and i’ve played other pvp games as well. Even if pvp is removed in this game, i will still play WOW without pvp. WOW is still a decent game even without PVP.

You are right about the issues with queue time and queuing for healers.

My guess is that with the solo queue, you would have more players coming back and those who normally wouldnt bother LFG would join as well, so you ended up with way more players and shorter queue time.

And I would assume you shouldn’t be able to queue as a team again for solo queue.

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Solo queue already exists in the form of skirms which could be extremely fun if they just added a hidden mmr system like with most quick-play features in other games. The reason why they aren’t fun atm is because all you get are no geared fresh 60s with half your hp, hidden mmr would solve this.

if you want rated solo queue as a seperate bracket from the current brackets we have that would just further kill an already dead game so that’s a bad idea.

If you want solo queue to be mixed in with current rated arena brackets, everyone will still play with teams on voice to have the huge advantages of coms and meta comps.

What solo queue advocates really want is a LFG tool revamp with the same solo queue feature that random bgs or dungeons have. Select role and queue up to be matched with similar rated players, and you could have a preferred specs to be partnered with feature.

However a common misconception is that any of these potential solo queue systems would fix toxicity and players putting the blame on their partners. It won’t.

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I hope they introduce soloq so it can be the final nail in the coffin

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Only no-lifers who can afford to sit around for 5+ hours a day waiting to form groups are against solo-queue

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Or people with a brain… You pick, pumpkin