So I’ve given it a chance with the new M+ system and I’m not a fan.
Heroic still doesn’t set you up for M+ and it’s harder to get into M+ especially on alts with lower gear that I’m not as good with. Having the +2 to +9 or so to get comfortable was much better than just having M0.
My recommendation is to revert the system back. High end players won’t be affected and lower end players will benefit.
lower players don’t benefit because they can’t get into groups as easily (10-12s) Now, they can.
And m0 was dreaded premade group content, now it’s heroic and queuable.
Please don’t speak on things you clearly don’t know about. I had just a fine time getting into 10’s and 12’s before. Deleting the 2-9 range and having nothing to replace it still leaves a gaping hole. Now there isn’t a range for the casual players to be in, so many people are coming into 2’s and getting smashed and bricking keys.
They can go into 0s. There’s no pressure at all, no timer or count. I know we’ve been skipping 0 for years, but now it’s where you go after heroic.
And get one chance a week at loot where previously it was an unlocked system you could run as much as you want. See the issue now?
M0 is limited chances at loot, the runs are all extremely rough and sometimes you can’t even finish, then you go into +2s and every group is a disband.
A bricked 2 means nothing because you still have a 2.
My time is valuable, wasted time is still wasted time.
You’re playing a game, you’re wasting time
I was choosing to spend my time doing an activity I enjoy which is now gone. Miss me with the tired “you’re wasting time” argument.
Unfortunately this bracket cried for untimed m+ for years, and blizz delivered.
Blizz waited until they figured a way to save money though- push out the 40-60% of players who cap at old +10s saves a lot of instances server space, and server space is expensive.
Many casual players still consider +2 as season 3 +2 and don do mechanic. They don think it is +12 in season 3. It is very bad. Even in M0, which is about +7 to +10 in season 3, many casual players or lfr players don do mechanic, don do a single interrupt
Each boss in a M0 gives a chance at loot. Doing 8 M0s is equal to 16 M+ with regard to loot chances and if you’re used to treading water sub 10, my guess is you are probably not doing 16 runs a week.
Obviously, it’s not. If it were, you’d try to get the most out of your time and if you’re struggling in 2s, your time is better spent learning how to play to better maximize your returns.
Cant downgrade a 2, learn the mechanics and get back after it.
Honestly, I feel like a lot of what people feel wrong about the new system, is a core misunderstanding of what they did.
Along with trying to argue from a perspective as if nothing changed and it’s just the same as last season, just “harder”. Which is just not the case
Prior: Heroic dungeons gave Adventure 1/8. With no Vault
New: Heroic dungeons give Adventure 4/8. With Vault being Veteran 4/8.
Prior: M0 dungeons gave Adventure 4/8. With no vault.
Now: M0 dungeons give Champion 1/8, with Hero 1/6 from vault.
This effectively means that you are already getting the rewards of a M+0 from last season, just for queuing for Heroics now. While also earning Great Vault items as if you were doing M+7-8’s.
All the while you are given 3-4 480 (veteran 1/8, or M+2 gear from last season) for free each week. Have the crafting tokens to craft 2 champion pieces, are given free 495 raid items of your choosing (at this point 2 of them), have LFR to give you more Veteran gear.
Then have dreamsurge that give Adventure 1/8 gear, time rift that does the same.
I just got back into the game and went from 422ish, to now 491, was given my 2 pieces for free (and with one drop from LFR can have your 4 set bonus already if you get lucky).
I honestly don’t think there has been a better system, or better time to jump in as a fresh character that needs gear badly.
And as far as M0 difficulty I feel that people are way over dramatizing the difficulty.
It’s far easier than the old M10’s (since you have none of the M0 affixes and no timer), and FINALLY all it requires from any PUG is just to do simple mechanics. Which is the only reason people fail/tilt in M0 right now.
But time is going to fix that as people begin to over gear the content like crazy. And I think its great that they are setting the bar of expectations of what M+ was always supposed to be. If you think M+ system is too much? The game gives you plenty of matchmade content to get you better gear then prior.
One of the things I feel that WoW has been missing is the requirement to do mechanics. Something I miss from Vanilla. Where even though content wasn’t as complex, the use of CC, kicks, etc. were far more known/valuable.
The core “issue” with M0 right now, is a significant number of players have not learned the content and are complaining that they wipe after 3/3 of the DPS in the group, the tank, and healer fail on every level. You can only die in M0 if you are failing mechanics.
I’ve already had runs where DPS was hitting 150k+ DPS, yet we were losing DPS left and right. Yet end of dungeon reports shows that 2/3 of the DPS never used their utility and didn’t contribute to kicks.
I’ve also had runs where the dps all floated around my tank damage, yet went incredibly smooth, because we avoided 99% of avoidable damage, and could just keep rolling, and allowed the healer to do more damage.
Which goes back to why I think removing M2-11 made sense. That content already wasn’t teaching players anything and didn’t require them to learn. Heroics are literally the entire place to make “LFR” version of dungeons.
M0 now does its job and introduces players to the bare minimum expectations of what the M+ system is about in the most relaxed possibly way that doesn’t simply just gut the entire content.
Yet, the best part? All the most casual players/ats are being given gear that is already far better than what they would have gotten if they were running +2-8’s last season. Without ever needing to search for a group. And as the weeks go buy, that’s only going to be faster/better.
skill issue
if you cant time a 2 then your core game play even as a casual is so far off.
New system is just terrible. Too easy for people who go into the patch with okay gear, too hard for people trying to get started in m plus dungeons.
Before you could start a M0 dungeon, fail a couple of mechanics but still recover easily and learn from the experience. Now it’s way too hard for these people since they are essentially thrown right into an old plus 8 dungeon basically with no timer.
Realistically, they don’t even need to time it - just complete because you still get loot and a 2 cannot downgrade. It’s basically free decent gear if you are just willing to actually play the game.
I really don’t think people on these forums understand the wide difference in skill between players that are actual casual and pick up this game once a week maybe, and don’t know how to do a rotation and use CDs, and are trying to press buttons and focus on that and how it divides their attention from all the stuff happening in a dungeon or raid.
Like you’re this amazing accomplished player out here clearin 13 and 14s and turning your nose up at people who can’t clear a 2, and unable to fathom or put yourself in the place of somebody new or just not that good at video games in general, but likes WoW, wants to enjoy WoW and play WoW.
A +2 shouldn’t be that hard for them, you’re right, but it is. That’s the problem.