Nostalgia and the future

hey guys this is my first thread but is a heavy one for me.

warcraft 3 was and still is a soft spot in my heart cuz it was the start of my 17 years of relationship with warcraft, and seeing all this stuff for reforged made me remember the old feeling of joy and happiness that this game have brought me for so long.

but then… I remembered bfa and everything it has ruined, the lore, the game, my guild and now i’m kind of alone and not enjoying the direction they are taking the lore.

I may joke about being a sylvie and blood elven loyalist but what I truly like in this game is the social interaction and the passion everyone here has for it.( cuz this game is a part of everyone here or otherwise no one would be here for a 15 year old game)

so my question is about the past and future. Do any of you feel somewhat the same (the game in general or the lore specially) ?
and do you guys expect that the next expansion can bring some of the old world of warcraft back to us ? I fear that the lore will not go to a good place and all of bfa mistakes may have a heavy burden than the ones from wod.

still I miss the old days of outland and northrend and all of the mystery this game had for us to uncover.

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I feel like it’s not nostalgia if you don’t have that feeling.

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I feel good for the future, cause I knew sylvanas was evil in wc3 lol imagine not being able to see it then

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i am skeptical, while i enjoyed some things in bfa, i am waiting to see what is going to happen in blizzcon or next patch to make my final decision.

in fact, i haven’t logged in weeks.

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I’m kinda in the same boat as you. Won’t go heavily into the gameplay side of things much, but I had one guild collapse on me already this expansion. If that happens again, I’m done.

Regarding the lore, the Horde’s pretty much over for me. They gutted and removed everything that made it appealing, and seem intent on making it Diet Alliance.

-Thrall’s gone from being the visionary young shaman who saw a bright future for the orcs living largely on their own, away from the humans (not necessarily hostile to humans, but certainly not a part of their society). He’s now going through a mid-life crisis, no longer wants to lead the Horde (walked away from it twice now), and isn’t even a shaman. What’s left of him at this point?

-Vol’Jin’s gone and seemingly replaced by a combination of Rokhan and Zappyboi. Rokhan himself isn’t all bad, but he has nowhere near the development that Vol’Jin did. Zappyboi’s just a joke character.

-Cairne is gone and replace by Baine. Baine just flat out sucks as a character. He’s never done anything of significance in the actual WoW game, and his entire story in the books and other media is basically him being incompetent and needing others to bail him out. Oh, and being Anduin’s friend. In BfA, we see this continue, along with everyone declaring how awesome Baine is and how he’s the supposed best the Horde can offer. Baine, in turn, heroically stays in Thunder Bluff while the rest of the Horde confronts Sylvanas. His one redeeming grace is abolishing the title of Warchief so that we never have to suffer from Warchief Baine.

-Sylvanas is replaced by Calia. A book-only character that you can only interact with on Alliance toons or priests. She’s basically as far removed from the Forsaken as possible, and is there mostly to “correct” the faction from its erroneous ways (In Bliz’s and the Alliance’s eyes).

-Gazlowe is replacing Gallywix. Nothing wrong with Gazlowe, but it’s yet more of the general re-branding of the Horde. It’s a shame, because Gallywix was one of the few characters who was enjoyably awful - awful just because he’s awful rather than due to an old god / demon / some other higher entity nonsense.

So, here we are with most of the leadership torn down and filled in with very bland replacements and at least two heavily Alliance leading members.

I legitimately don’t see who the faction is really aimed at or supposed to appeal to anymore. Why even bother with two factions if one’s just going to be willingly subservient to the other?

More fundamentally, we’re 15 years in and nearing the end of the 8th expansion, yet it feels like the Horde never really took off as its own faction. Nearly all of the major events or problems wind up getting solved by the Alliance or Alliance leaning groups. So, now, here we are yet again restructuring the Horde except now with even weaker characters at the helm. It’s just impossible to envision the Horde going on to accomplish anything meaningful from this point on.

Faction nonsense aside, I absolutely hate how the story played out this expansion. Never before have they made me feel that my character is as irrelevant as it was in this expansion. Nearly every quest, dungeon and raid boss, and major event had a bunch of NPC’s talking (sometimes present; sometimes offscreen) and generally taking credit for the work my character did. At no point was my character ever really the pivotal force making or breaking anything - it always was the NPC’s being the ones to ultimately finish everything. The war campaign had a “choice” system that wound up being of no consequence - you wind up exactly the same regardless of who you help or betray. Finally, the main storyline of the expansion - Sadfang’s Journey - wasn’t something you could even take part of. It was all him off on his own. You, in the meantime, have to do a bunch of nonsense stuff for some turtles in Nazjatar.

My PC is the champion of Azeroth - the one person with the means of saving the planet. How that is pushed aside completely just for a sad orc. is completely beyond me.

I’m just legitimately baffled at how deliberately they could write the PC out of the story and consider it a success. It honestly felt much more like a badly written stage-play than a war. Yeah, there’s a terrible war going on in the background; naturally, we need to keep coming up with reasons for all the generals and leaders to keep meeting up and complaining about how awful one leader is or whatever the current issue of the day is. Oh, and the final resolution for it is just this leader killing an orc and then leaving without any further action, so everyone can get back to standing around and talking again.

So, actually answering the OP’s question, I don’t see them fixing things going forward. My best hope would be a split timeline from Classic, but that’s not going to happen. And, honestly, a lot of current WoW’s stuff diminishes my enjoyment of Classic too. It’s very hard to engage oneself in the story and environment when you already know what does - and doesn’t - happen in the future. It’s hard to enjoy the Forsaken, for example, when you know that Sylvanas won’t actually confront Arthas in a meaningful way.

Another factor at play is just general fatigue and boredom with the constant “big bad” as a villain. Arthas and the TBC Legion were fine. The stuff with the Void, the Light, and now some spoopy death entity though, is a bit grating. It’s annoying that every Big Bad is now acting to try and stave off an even Bigger Bad down the line. I don’t know how we reached a point where Azshara is a mid-expansion raid boss serving an Old God who’s release serves some death god’s interest, but we did and it feels pretty dumb.

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It’s pretty easy to miss when you never look up from her breasts.

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I hope you don’t mind if I quote myself from a couple of other threads; it answers your question pretty well.

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My very last friend that plays WOW texted me that he uninstalled it this weekend.

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There’ll be a light at the end of the tunnel for you eventually. My guild had transferred servers during my big hiatus in WoD, so when I came back I had no one to talk to or do stuff with.

I know that this may seem corny and even ironic from a meta level, but don’t give up hope just yet, I’m sure one of these days you’ll find a WoW expansion that reinvigorates your love for this franchise.

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I feel a certain vindication now that Sylvanas has been proven to be a true villain and is now on the run.

Storywise, I think Warcraft can finally move foward from all the story beats of Warcraft 3. Even now, no one can tell me with 100% accuracy what WoW next expansions will hold.

It feels like a reboot to me. Instead of coming out with WoW 2.0 they decided to reboot the lore in an expansion. It reminds me of when Games Workshop killed old WHFB for AOS. Many old players quit but it seemed more new players joined up.

In the end I hear AOS is great if you can let go of the past but that can be hard to do if you felt invested for more than a decade in the old lore. It has taken me several years to really even look at it without prejudice. It might be the same with this.

I’m mainly playing Classic now. I hope for a timeline divergence but recognize it is unlikely. Even without one though I can enjoy the story, even with uneven bits, up to 15 years worth and just plan on leaving when Classic finishes Legion if it ever goes that far. I’ll look upon defeating Sargeras as the big ending and in my head cannon that afterwards, having united to face the World Destroyer, the two factions retired their war and agreed to stay out of each others ways except for the odd skirmish. BFA never happens in my Classic timeline. I’m sure in the next decade I’ll find something else or be able to look at WoW as its own thing and not part of the original lore.

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When Tyrande inevitably returns to kowtowing to Anduin’s boundless and superior human wisdom, would you like for me to gloat in a similar fashion?

It’s pretty obvious Tyrande has been a crappy strategist and leader this entire time. If you can’t see she’s going to fail you’ve been completely duped. Then again it’s easy to miss her multitude of glaring flaws when you never look down from her bump-it hair.

(I am being facetious for the sake of illustrating a point btw.)

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Man I didn’t know there was a name for this lmao. My friend and I joke about her having Karen hair but this one is a bit more accurate.

People already gloat over genocide, Sylvanas escaping, and the horde being forgiven or tolerated again. What’s one more?

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Sure if you want, but tyrande hasnt gone that path yet, that path is in front of her, but she hasnt taken it

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Because smugness, gloating, making assumptions about each other, and just generally being catty creates a toxic forum environment which doesn’t lead to productive lore discussions or any amount of mutual understanding. I’ve shifted my outlook on many lore topics in the past because someone phrased their outlook in a way which I could relate to and understand, not because they insulted me and attacked my opinions in an effort to gain more internet points. Please don’t contribute to a worse Story Forum environment just because you may assume so much about the “other side” of people’s opinions and whether or not they’re being jerks.

We should all know by now that Blizzard has next to no amount of respect for character motivations or development, they can change in a heartbeat/do a complete 180 between patches. Just look at Jaina, she started BfA as this vengeful scary mage and she’s ending BfA cuddled up to Thrall and Baine. Sure, Sylvanas did end up going down the path she’s currently on, but why are you so sure Sylvanas was ALWAYS going to go down that path? Given so many other character examples in WoW?

I sincerely hope Tyrande doesn’t end up going down the path I predict she will (in that her vengeance will be largely forgotten, invalidated, vilified, or a mix of all three), because that’d be stupid and ridiculous, and I imagine that would at least irritate you. Could you consider extending some sympathy toward Sylvanas fans, then?

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It depends on who and how

I’m not sure how to feel about the future. The story has been on a decline since Cata. I’m currently worried for Tyrande and the Night Elf culture in general. I can’t really get invested in the story.

As for nostalgia, I too miss the old days. I started playing in 07. My first guild which was such a positive experience broke apart during Wrath and I had 2 more after that I haven’t been in a guild since Cata, right before I took a break. None of my ingame friends play anymore. I keep saying I’m going top move to MG or WRA for rp but I keep forgetting. At this point I’m so used to posting alone. I miss the old days so much, I need to get into classic but I’m not sure its the same.

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no why, would I respect people who are mad at me for a character that was clearly evil since wc3. The sylvanas fans who knew she was evil who enjoy her evil, are the only sylvanas fans I respect, not the blind people who kept telling me she was the greatest and the true horde.

Are you expecting me to argue with you? Between A Little Patience and War of Thorns her limited leadership exposure does indeed paint her as a leader who sucks at tactics and warfare despite being 10000 years old.