If you live in US you can get a lot of “free” hand outs from the government so you dont “have to” have a job.
Minus the massive amount of paperwork you need to do in order to even start the process, the ability to actually be contacted (not everyone has a cell phone, much less a smartphone), the ability to make it to any appointments you might have…or things like an actual street address. I could go on, but this is the WoW forum, not a political forum.
Glad to see you’re just as ignorant about real life problems as you are ingame ones.
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Great so you already have your friends so you shouldn’t care about rdf and wouldn’t need to use it… oh what’s that, there’s more to this? Yeah ok I see now, you actually just want to control how other people play and enjoy the game….
You talk about how the game shouldn’t change. The irony is us pro-rdfers weren’t looking for change, we want rdf because we had it in original wrath…
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I think you’ve maybe hit on the key disconnect. You said it yourself, using “RDF as a premade”. Which means you grab a couple of your friends and use RDF to fill out the rest of your group and teleport automatically to the dungeon.
This is a vastly different experience to the expectations that those of us who aren’t keen on RDF are looking for. The experience we want to keep alive is the one that is initially diminished, then ultimately rendered non-existent by RDF.
I mean, you can hop on to retail right now and do a query to see how many people are looking for a group in a dungeon provided by its version of RDF. I’m willing to bet not very many. I can’t check now but I can check later.
Additionally, with RDF, you can still target a specific dungeon, you just don’t get a bonus for it. I’m not sure if there was a cross-over period in WoW where this wasn’t true, but it has been for quite some time.
Honestly, this sounds like an oversight on your understanding of what we want. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but ultimately, no… we can’t just not use RDF if we want to find groups for any content that RDF provides. Like honestly, I wish it wasn’t the case 'cause then you could go your way and I could go mine, but ultimately what I want is threatened by what you want.
Yep.
In SL LFD was for callings. It was for money off the reward. even pvp gear was way better, I didn’t go here for gear.
Even the mythic pro’s hit it for for fast clears if the calling came after their weekly mythic taskers.
they didn’t even rant on low gears. hell the nice ones would say dudes, I am massive pulling. This was the hint for fresh 60’s to stand back lol.
Tank and the geared would jsut clean up full room pulls. Low gears could come in at the end when they’d live longer.
By the time TOC then ICC gear is common I’d gather wrath heroics would be the same if we got this.
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It works that way right now.
It’s called guilds
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If you made connections, you wouldn’t need to type in lfg.
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If the game doesn’t support your playstyle why don’t you find a different game instead of trying to ruin this one?
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“… but but travelling to a dungeon I’ve done a hundred times is so meaningful and enjoyable, it CANNOT be removed!!! “
I just don’t get it, I really don’t… the real sad thing is blizzard listens to this bs…
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No, I 100% mean creating a group of five people. I;m not talking about adding a friend then using RDF for the remaining 3 spots. I legit am talking about getting five people together, chosen by the party leader then either walking to the dungeon or using RDF for a teleport. There were and would be again people putting groups together to either bring 4 other friends/guidlies or to avoid to random aspect of the matchmaking altogether. Premade groups will happen as they did before, slightly disingenuous to say otherwise.
History shows this as not true. both systems can a do exist without hurting each other, historically if there is a claim of damage or diminishing of one of these systems it is RDF being over taken by LFG. Players want to control their group and RDF or LFG presents the same avenue for control. Hands down.
I cannot agree with this statement, I’m sure you do believe this but I find this factually incorrect from my own experiences playing from RDF’s introduction to now. Players will always pick what works best for them and it’s either LFG or RDF, we would not see the absolute abolishment of LFG grouping as you claim were RDF added.
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I appreciate you clarifying here, but I’m afraid I simply don’t believe you. This never happened. I’ve been playing this game since 2004 and as soon as WotLK dropped, nobody ever did this as a random match making experience. While I certainly grouped with my friends as a full premade or partial premade for RDF and don’t expect that to change, the process of grouping with strangers becomes 100% dominated by RDF. The percentage of players who build a random group outside of RDF for an RDF-enabled dungeon, then proceed to walk to said dungeon, will be roughly ZERO.
Quite the opposite actually. Again, with the introduction of RDF, non-RDF matchmaking for non-premade groups become unheard of. Like, seriously, nobody did this. I’ve been playing and grouping extensively in dungeons since 2004, I remember this well. You could find a group for content outside RDF if you wanted to but for anything that you could just automatically fill and then teleport? Nobody did this. Why would they? Not only do you spend time walking to a dungeon when you could just teleport there, you would also miss out on the bonus for the random dungeon if you didn’t need anything specifically.
To be honest, not only do I find your statements completely disingenuous, I find your accusations that I’m not being genuine very suspect. What you are claiming goes completely against the experiences I’ve had over the last 19 years of playing this game, and they also run contrary to the commonly discussed experiences prior to the arrival of the RDF debate.
Yet now, suddenly, we have people saying, “Oh yea, I used to make my own groups and run to dungeons all the time even though we had RDF! Also, please add RDF!”
I’m sorry, but your motivations are strongly in question here. So no, the argument of “Just don’t use it” is about as effective as telling someone to just “don’t use the internet”. You can do this, but you put yourself at an extreme disadvantage in doing so.
This is why the issue is divisive, I brought this up either to you or to someone else. This RDF argument is entirely lived experience versus lived experience. Neither of us has anything verifiable besides that lived experience.
I have been here since before RDF as well and clearly our experiences are different here.
We can continue till we are both red in the face refuting each other but get nowhere. I 100% believe and have seen/participated in the actions I claim, as I am sure you feel the same towards yours.
I have been 100% consistent in my stance on RDF allowing player agency just as much as LFG does, and presenting more options for group content formation. It’s not a sudden occurrence, its being brought up because people did make premade groups and then either walk/summon or use teleport to get to the dungeon. This happened.
I was hoping for more than a dismissal of lived experience argument but this is where we have arrived. Saying that nobody would group with 5 people same server, maybe even out of the LFG channel, to do content in an RDF group is really just inaccurate. At base level tanks/healers sold their queue, at normal levels guildies would run with guildies and friends with friends. Premades happened.
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Except not only is your stated lived experience counter to my own, and the commonly discussed discussed experiences prior to the RDF controversy, it’s also counter to reasonable and logical expectations.
- (A) In a scenario where a teleport to a dungeon exists, why would any significant portion of players choose to travel there manually?
- (B) In a scenario where you are incentivized to use RDF (via bonus xp, gear, and additional currency), why would anybody choose to give up these rewards and run the dungeon manually?
- (C) In a scenario where the vast majority of players are using RDF, how could one expect to find enough players to connect with outside of RDF to find groups for RDF enabled content?
Am I misunderstanding your claims?
I absolutely believe that you made full or partial premades, then used RDF to go to your destination. I did this too. But with RDF there is no value in not using it unless you’re stubbornly committed to avoiding it… which absolutely will happen in the short term should RDF be released, but it won’t last. It’s absurd to think it can.
I’m not saying they didn’t, but they did not happen with a group of 5 strangers for content that could be accessed through RDF.
Hold up, making grouping EASIER, is limiting social interaction?
That’s not how it works. When getting together is EASIER it make social interaction EASIER.
Why do you think people flock to night clubs, concerts, farmers markets, conventions?
It is set up to make it EASIER to chat and be social with people who are there to do what you want to do.
Your entire stance on making socializing EASIER is so backwards it blows my mind.
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You must have a public humiliation fetish to keep posting things like this
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It’s a hell of a claim to say something did not happen when someone says it did. I don’t know if I’ve ever made a pre-made group of 5 and then queued in rdf, but I used to always ask my guild for other people back in the day when I tanked and would often have 2, 3, 4, people before queuing, so it’s just as likely that I sometimes had 5. I don’t know why that would be so unbelievable. It’s almost like you don’t understand why people used rdf back in the day.
That’s a two way street so don’t play the victim here.
I’m making no claims that nobody ever made a full or partial pre-made group and then used RDF. Why do you think otherwise?
Ok I admit I skimmed your post, my bad I’m at work right now. So you just said groups weren’t formed outside of rdf with completely random people, and I’d probably agree there, or at least it would’ve been rare.
I guess I just don’t see where the problem is there. I’m not looking to meet people in 5 man’s. And I don’t seem to be the only one, I’ve run a lot of dungeons on various characters since wrath released and it doesn’t seem like many other people are looking to socialize there either. That’s just anecdotal evidence but I’d say in 90% of the dungeons I’ve run people don’t say anything, outside of “gg” at the end.
If I want to make friends in game I join a guild and meet them there, run raids, etc.
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The problem is that RDF undermines the feeling that you’re a part of a virtual world taking part in a role-playing adventure and starts to feel more like a session based game with a diminished long-term presence. Which I’m not even saying is a bad thing taken as a broad concept, I play lots of these, but in this particular game type it’s a rarity that provides meaningful value to some people. If you take it away and make it just like every other similar game on the market, then that uniqueness is lost.
You don’t value the experience of forming up a group and traveling to a dungeon. Nooooo problem, sir! I acknowledge and respect your preferences here. However, I do value that, and I don’t want to lose it. I want you to understand that I don’t fault, or even judge, your preferences here. I’m even going to 
your post because nothing you said is wrong and that absolutely is your experience and I don’t question that. But it’s not what I want from the game and what you do want from the game has a proven tendency to diminish what I want from the game.
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Making it mindless does.
Click button have group makes it mindless.