There was a reason #nochanges was a thing. I’m not saying X is good and Y is bad. What I’m saying is that the moment you entertain Y possible being better than X, you immediately split the player base. We’re seeing it with pre-nerf raids, dual spec, banning GDKP, banning boosting-the list goes on. Each topic fragments the community until you end up with a product no one actually likes or wanted.
People came back in droves for 2019 Classic Wow for two reasons: nostalgia (which absolutely matters) and the original gameplay. You can’t recapture lightning in a bottle, and with retail it’s clear that modern devs can’t create anything even close. Just leave the 20-year-old game the way it was. It’s timeless because it was created in a time that no longer exists and can’t be recreated. Trying to modernize a 20-year-old game with weak ideas only creates a worse product.
The damage has already been done. Just roll out TBC anniversary like you did in 2021 and call it a day. Stop changing things that don’t need to be changed and let us play the nostalgia-filled game that is original WoW. The current player base DOESN’T know what’s good for them. Blizzard doesn’t share any actual data. It’s all inferred through 3rd party websites.
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I’m not sure it really matters for Anniversary at this point, but for sure there is some merit in the idea of #NoChanges. It has been stated time and again on these forums that while most of us have something here or there we would probably either want changed or agree with having changed, it seems incredibly difficult to find consensus on any changes that would appease everyone, yet the one thing that unites all Classic players is wanting to play that version of the game.
Maybe one day, and who knows, maybe the next progression servers in 5 years or whenever will be the first time they ever offer actual #NoChanges.
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People need to understand that both parties can get what they want.
We just need the bad players to accept that they can wait a little bit for things to get nerfed, but of course they are extremely toxic and don’t want good players to enjoy any part of the game.
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I’m old. Probably ten years older than some of the older “dad” players. I don’t have any grandchildren, but I’m old enough to have one starting college.
At my age, sometimes you see something and it triggers a memory. Something you said brought me right back.
I used to frequent a bar at least a couple times a week. It was a fun place, plenty of cool people, good service, good music (usually), video poker at the bar, a pool table, darts. A little off-strip dive bar for locals. (In Vegas, Spring Mtn if you know, you know.)
There was a dude there who was extremely good at pool… like Fast Eddie Felson good. This table had a beat to play, win to continue type rule. In other words, when he was there - you played him and were routinely humiliated by him - or you didn’t play. If he was there - no playing with your bud, no playing with your date - you played him until he lost. I never saw him lose.
Finally, management of the bar realized this and started restricting his pool playing - he couldn’t “own” the table anymore. After that, he would tell anyone who would listen how the management was ruining the bar now. Punishing a good pool player for being good. The reality, for me anyway, was the pool game was such a massive part of his bar experience that he didn’t believe people went there except to challenge him for the table. Most of us just ignored the pool table, or played when he wasn’t there. He was finally 86’d for constant complaints.
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They could have just changed the beat to play, win to continue rule and switched people every game.
Also, this has no relevance to what I said whatsoever.
Bad WoW players consistently want nothing more than for good players to not enjoy any part of the game. Most of these people don’t even raid. They just want the raids ruined for good players.
They see someone with 90+ parses and immediately think negatively towards them.
It would be like seeing a dude at the driving range launching clean balls 300+ yards every swing, and you, who can barely hit a clean ball, starts thinking negatively of him simply because he’s good. It’s a deranged mindset that has been embedded into gamers minds for the past 10 or so years.
Back before this nonsense, people used to want to be the good players. We would watch videos in old CoD’s of people dropping nukes and we wanted to drop nukes ourselves. Now people see someone drop a nuke and their first reaction is to insult them and say they have no life.
How come the good players are willing to compromise and only have pre nerf for a bit and then have it nerfed afterwards, yet the bad players aren’t willing to compromise at all? Think about that.
They have ruined FPS games by demanding SBMM because they are too afraid to play against anyone better than them in a casual mode, now they try to ruin end game MMO’s by having everything nerfed into the ground.
Who’s the real toxic players?
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I guess it was a complicated analogy.
I’ll try to explain my thought so you’ll get why I thought it was relevent.
There are plenty of things to do in WoW - not everyone is playing TBCa to raid.
When you say that bad players don’t want good players to enjoy any part of the game - you are basically saying that the only part of TBCa that people play for is the raiding.
Just like the guy who believed nobody was at the bar except to play pool.
Or it was just too obscure an example.
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This is true for lots of people.
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The analogy was fine.
It was never about the challenge for the select group that insults others as “bad players” on here. It was always about exclusivity, because a few people have tied their identity and self-worth to their “performance” in a 20 year old game that most people play to relax after work.
Plenty of people like the difficulty of TBC (myself included) who also think postnerf is probably the right move given how fast we moved through classic. At least I can speak for our guild and say we just plan on not sweating filling the roster every week, and may even try to run some splits to carry alts.
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While staring at pictures of feet?
If you want to raid well, you should already plan on having split raids. This is especially true given the drop from 40 to 25. We have probably ~90 active raiders with quite a few more waiting to come back for TBC.
At this point its become clear that blizz wants to spend no more effort to run classic. The 1 AI bot they have working on the game is the best they can do. If you want to make a difference speak with your wallet and unsub.
On the bright side, the more downies stay here, the fewer of them will be infesting other games.
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Why is every post a disgruntled alliance toon?
I agree for the most part, but I feel it’s less Microvision (refuse to call them Blizzard) these days and more the community.
The end goals are different.
The reasons are different.
The “world” is different.
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i dont see a problem with making the pre/post nerf time 50/50 for the tier being active as the “current” content.
that way both sides get what they want for 50% of the time the content is current.
hell as a bonus the rest of the time the content is out after its no longer current the content will be nerfed allowing for even more time for the people struggling with it to down it.
seems like the only compromise that suits both sides.
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I see this solution often presented, but I have a question for 50/50 advocates. Would it be acceptable if the first half of content availability was post-nerf? In other words, is this really about challenge or more about getting raid loot first.
Honest question, no incorrect answers.
naw it would be about the challenge first and foremost for those that want it.
having the second half be post would also leave it unchanged for the rest of the expansion so people who needed to “catch up” would be able to or those that couldnt do it before could do it later and have plenty of time to do it.
yeah, #nochanges was great
having 400ms of lag on everything was great
having to raidlog to keep world buffs was great
lol
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As much as I hate to be that guy, folk on either side of this issue have been less than civil.
I prefer to see those that want pre-nerf as enjoying the challenge while those that want post-nerf as wanting a more relaxed experience. Nothing to bash either for their choices.
Just seems to me that splitting the time and allowing for a period of higher difficulty before dialing it back gives more players their opportunity to play their way. Why (other than Blizzard’s odd to me decision making) can’t we have both?
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