#nochange calls them loladins

Samuel-mankrik · September 29, 2019, 3:53am

" OMGWOW CLASSIC SO EZ MODE"

oh hey, I got a ret paladin doing 400dps which is more than the min to kill all the bosses.

OMG no RET PALLY, tehy CANT raid…

whole thread summarized…

Pelinal-goldrinn · September 29, 2019, 4:01am

again, Blizzard gave voice to the nochanges trolls from the private server discord groups, and the are doing everything that they want…

Autrwarrior-atiesh · September 29, 2019, 4:06am

Than you had had either crap paladins or your group was crap.

Paladins are fine tanks.

Argorwal-ysera · September 29, 2019, 6:53pm

Purge:

Zeliek:

Your dps on patchwerk only need to hit like 332 dps to beat the fight. No reason to not bring other specs since they all can double that at minimum…

I think this is the part people forget the most.

Classic/Vanilla’s tuning is so way out of whack, so absurd with just how far you can take some builds, that the best of them are literal overkill. Not just by a small amount, but by such lengths that it can actually break encounters.

In addition to this, comparing a single DPS’ individual throughput to another single DPS out of an entire raid isn’t logical. It’s not any individual’s damage that matters, but overall raid damage. A paladin contributes to damage in more ways than their own personal throughput; naturally, a retribution specced paladin will add more on top of this via their own. This, when properly utilized, nets out to a ret paladin increasing the raid damage by the same amount a pure DPS would.

This is why raid leaders and better players constantly have to yell at their DPS to stop worrying about meters; it’s not about personal damage, not about Tommy doing 20% more than Jimmy on Patchwerk, but overall raid damage. Blessing of Might, for example, is pretty terrible on its own, but across multiple melee, it is insanely strong.

Another thing people do not seem to realize is that someone swinging in melee has a much easier time using instant-cast buffs and whatnot than someone hard-casting. You cannot buff/cleanse and heal at the same time, but you can buff/cleanse while meleeing since instant attacks don’t interrupt a swing timer like they would a cast bar.

This is also the reason why Blizzard eschewed the hybrid design idea; most of what they provide is behind the scenes, thus difficult to quantify/track, and difficult to balance. Naturally, this means the majority of the players will interpret data at a glance, leading to an undeserved stigma, leading to an abrasive atmosphere that is not good for the community health of the game.

When people aren’t allowed to play what they want, how they want, because it’s perceived as terrible by others regardless of whether it’s correct or not, they stop playing. Simple as that. Thus you get class overhauls where hybrid DPS’ utility capacity was lessened in favor of increasing their personal throughput in later expansions, followed by the isolation of specs to where each spec could be tuned as if it were its own class.

Ret doesnt bring anything not brought by being holy.

Maybe its raid design rather than class?

Its like, why bother with a hybrid for utility and bad damage when you can have them heal, get the same utility and good heals, and bring a real dps.

Nochanges of course, and content is so easy it doesnt matter.

Zeliek-moon-guard · September 30, 2019, 3:58am

Nearly double the dps and free globals for cleansing while still being able to heal on fights that need more healers by just switching gear.

Nah, it’s really just gear design and the developer’s tunnel vision on universal mechanics.

Well, the problem with the hybrid tax was that the hybrid 90% of the time does one role instead of actually being a hybrid and being able to perform multiple roles at the same time.

anon77850425 · September 30, 2019, 4:07am

nah you will be fine - we took loladins to mc/ony/bwl in vanilla days, no one minded. Not too many, mind, but half our pallies were kinda clueless as to their class roles and we just wanted the buffs, can easily carry 5-10 people not pulling their weight.

Question is - can you find a guild in these days of spellcleave/minmax/streamers that will still accommodate suboptimal classes? I think you can, but not till the masses hit 60.

The casual guilds are still at 30-40. Be patient, you will get a spot.

Shunye-anathema · September 30, 2019, 3:21pm

I’m not sure if you actually raided patchwerk in vanilla, but as someone who did, i can say that it was not a cakewalk where you can bring anyone doing “minimum dps.” you don’t wipe to patchwerk from the enrage timer bud, you wipe to patchwerk from your healers running out of mana which is significantly faster than the enrage timer. all the people on these forums who think that mc being an example of how “easy” naxx is going to be are in for a rude awakening. with the 1.10 catch up gear reworks on dungeon and quest gear, mc has been turned into a complete joke, and bwl will probably be the same way. However once you walk into aq40, all that catchup gear will be gone and the fights won’t be so easy anymore.

Theloras-herod · September 30, 2019, 3:43pm

yes and we will finally have our dps Tier 2 and 2.5 sets Judgement and Avenger

Zeliek-moon-guard · September 30, 2019, 3:43pm

… I never said you’d be bringing people doing minimum dps. I said you’d be bringing people doing double that. So not a 7 min fight, but 3:30 fight maximum. With warriors, rogues, mages, warlocks, feral druids it’s going to be a much faster fight than that even.