So, I looked into this. Yeah, this is an example of where the reportign system fails us.
The WoW forums use chars, not Bnet accounts, so people can have 8 X 50 chars per bnet account to use for likes, reports, and posts. Much sockpuppeting can happen.
We can’t explain patterns of behavior in a report. So while an individual post might look sort of ok alone, when it is taken as a pattern it is directed and targeted harassment.
I know who some of the folks involved in all this are. It makes me want to just grab people by the ear, put them all in time out, and tell them all to IGNORE each other on the forums - with the ignore feature.
The targeted harassment is not ok though, and I don’t know how to get a message to mods about it.
Edit - yeah, one of the posts involved does come off as a personal threat. I see it has been reported though.
If at ‘first glance’ the posts don’t look like they break any rules, the question is - are they?
That truly is what ignore is for, Kamaelse. You don’t want to see what someone else has to say - you don’t have to. That really is a pretty powerful tool, sorely underutilized.
Except for the fact that quite literally ignore can be overturned at the flip of a button by switching to an alt. Something the mods quite literally won’t notice either mind you. And alts can repeatedly be created and deleted using the boosted character system because they pop up as a character you can post on the forums with. And yes, if something doesn’t look like it breaks the rules at first glance it most definitely can still be veiled harassment towards someone…
In this case, yes. It is targeted and directed harassment. Some of the posts are blatantly bad (calling out a poster by name, insulting them, threatening them), others are a problem in context of the larger pattern of harassment.
If mod looks at one of the posts that is grey, they don’t see the pattern overall.
I have a pretty good idea of what is going on and who is involved. One of them very badly needs a long time out. There are so many insulting and trolling posts by that person, not even including the targeted harassment - my 5 reports don’t go far. Same for everyone else.
To be fair, the blue posters can’t really go about and action anyone whom basically request it. I get what’s happening, but the blues here can’t be really be told to just action this person and that.
Ignore can be circumvented by other accounts, true enough - but they aren’t overturned by US. It works much the same as ignore ingame, that is something under a player’s control, not ours.
Oh I know that. The Forum Support Agents are not moderators and don’t tend to go outside this forum. The most they can do is advise on the proper use of the tools we do have and/or pass things on to the Forum Moderators.
There IS an issue though and there are limited ways to actually bring up the topic right now. That is an issue with the system, not the mods specifically.
Bnet account wide Trust/likes/flags to prevent sockpuppeting and false like/flags.
Ability to like/flag needs to be linked to posting ability. Right now ANY Bnet account can do so, even if they don’t have a posting char or a game license.
Comment field for reports to point out patterns to mods
Not at all. Ignore in-game at least blocks entire accounts if one attempts to respond to you on alts. While someone on here can just keep pressing that switch character button once they realize that the ignore feature has been used on them. This makes it useless against people that are intent on harassing people, the only time it’s useful is to block posts from people that you just don’t like.
In game if I ignore a player on Mirasol (this char), Mirasol will never hear from any of their alts on the license either. No mail, no grouping, no nothing.
If I ignore a poster on Mirasol, it only ignores that single character. They are free to keep going on all their other chars on the account 8 X 50 of them per Bnet account. And of course they can delete and remake the chars to their heart’s content. The forums don’t have the ability to ignore a whole Bnet account (for WoW). This is also why people get away with all the sockpuppeeting.
Of course, Cogshanks used the Bnet wide Ignore to determine who alts were, which might be why Blizz does not do it. Chars are not private though so…
To be frank, it feels like you’re dog piling on Orlyia for something they can’t do anything about. You and I both know that explaining this to her isn’t going to change anything, let alone change what’s happening on the general forum.
Yes, I get you’re trying to help but it sounds like you’re exacting miracles out of her.
I am not expecting anything out of her. Stop reading into things. I know the FSRs don’t cross moderate. I know they don’t forward suggestions. I know they can’t do anything but explain the current tools we have.
Orly is mistaken though about the way forum ignore works. If it worked the way in-game ignore worked that would be super helpful.
This is not an attack on anyone, esp Orly. Our FSRs are fantastic. They have limits though and the topics being brought up here are valid.
And yeah, “go post on GD” - people did and that turned into a thread that is a trash fire of the same people causing the problems.
Cogshanks was based upon the old forum where every posting character was tied to an account ID.
That ability was lost when the new, third-party, forum was rolled out.
It was a very effective way of identifying sock puppets. Many of us would use a particular browser just for WoW forums because Cogshanks had an add-on for that browser.
Back when this incarnation of the forums was new (3-4 years ago?), there was talk by Blizzard of compiling a list of changes for it to recapture some of what was lost in the transition.
While there have been a couple of minor tweaks within the framework of the new forum data model, there have been no fundamental changes to either the new system architectural foundation or its supporting data model.
I haven’t seen a Blizzard reference to a forum change list for quite a long time. I get the feeling that grouping data at a higher level than just a posting character isn’t supportable within the exiting architecture without an extensive rewrite of the code. If it was going to happen, enough time has passed for it to actually happen.
It was lost before that. Blizz disabled it well before the new forums rolled out.
I miss it so much
Of course it is. Every other Blizzard forum handles the data at the Bnet account level. WoW forums were specially modified to handle it at the Character level. That is not a default in the Discourse software package. I mean, if they wanted to go the easy way, they could have just left WoW the same as the other forums and we post by Btag.
The reasoning behind it has to do, I think, with the role play aspect of WoW and the attachment people have to characters - and the ability to post as that char.
Good points Mirasol. I recall now that the account ID was indeed removed before the new forums rolled out.
I’m also now recollecting that there was quite a lot of upheaval among the forum population when Blizzard announced they would use Real-ID as the basis for forum data above the character level. Many, including myself, were concerned over privacy issues.
That may have scared them away from consolidating WoW posting at the Battle.net ID level,
Look, I’m not trying to start a fight with you, nor I’m trying to act smug with you. I understand you’re trying to help, but from an outside point of view, it can be view different. Yes, she was mistaken, but it’s probably best to just let her get some coffee or something to wake her up. They basically gotten into the office and would re-reead what they post and clear up any mistake.
Again, not trying to pick a fight, just wish to show another point of view on the matter. I like you and Pearl on the CS forum, I like reading and learning from you two, but just wish to point it out overall. I’m sorry if it comes off as picking a fight, that wasn’t my goal.
If I recall, the creator of Cogshanks did say if he personally saw people sock-puppeting to troll, he would he add them right back in, even if they opted out.
