Your two points are contradictory here. If the roster being changed has so much of an impact that it can negate the difficulty of the boss, then the boss isn’t as difficult as managing the roster.
Mythic raid end bosses are like line dances. Everyone needs to be able to execute their assigned mechanics. The mechanic each person gets isn’t super difficult, and it is generally very predictable (though I will admit to struggling a bit on the jailer, I was always assigned the farthest pylon in P1 and then they were positioning the boss so that we could LoS, the combined effect meaning I had some downtime on that fight that wasn’t ideal)
I think some small changes could make a huge difference. Perhaps they don’t want people pugging from boss to boss like people do in heroic, so maybe make the raid lockout shorter like 1 day or 3 days, while still having the per-boss lockout remain a week. That way there could still be a farm night.
M+ is relied upon by mythic raiders because once you hit the point where you’re holding on to the lockout there is only prog. Only a few guilds in the world can reliably get back to the end boss every week.
I think we have some of these systems because people are attached to them because it’s what they’ve always known.
It’s rather sometimes it becomes evident that 1-3 people are struggling on the boss. Now, without the option to downsize, you’d get the kill with them (and in most cases, not drop them for the next boss either.)
I didn’t mean CE isn’t valuable and should be removed. I’m asking whether the number of players engaged by the content is greater than the number of players would engage if it was more accessible and easier?
Managing a CE raid is essentially a full-time job.
I don’t think they’re saying to delete the content, or nerf the difficulty.
My point is that the roster of the CE raid takes more time and effort than the actual raiding itself. At least, that’s been my experience.
Plus the other issue is that the CE raid team forms without any social connection. Everyone is there purely because of the mission. Yes friendships can form from that, but in my experience, more friendships are lost than formed.
This is a giant gray area that is ultimately a roster challenge. If your guild has 23 people on the roster then you’ve essentially cut the bottom 3 already.
Meanwhile end-boss mythic raid guilds are dying left and right
If you nerf CE down to LFR difficulty, you should get roughly, the LFR numbers.
Not necessarily, projected skill is an uncertain bet on the future. And some bosses are more mechanically demanding than others. Was benched for Painsmith, guild divvied up the kills for the next 3 bosses after because they were easy.
And I learned that I suck at playing resto shaman on Sylvanas.
This comes down to roster too. Rygelon comes to mind because the mechanics were pretty easy on him, but the enrage timer was quite real. I feel like we got the kill on the pull everyone managed to stay alive. My numbers were horrible on that fight because I was on add duty on that fight with one other person, and had to save my CD’s for odd timings (and run a less-optimal covenant that synced up better with the adds)
Ultimately this was a roster issue because we didn’t have quite the roster to effectively kill adds, so we had to make do. Then conversely for lords I had the very best spec for that fight I think, and was able to blast. Our team had a good comp dmg-wise but was a bit sus mechnically though, we took way too many pulls on both of those bosses. I’m glad I’m no longer with that group but sad to see the whole guild die from what appears to be roster issues
It’s to convey that if CE is easier, more people will have it.
The perfect raider is someone who has travelled back in time, and already killed the fight in the future. Also never misses raid or dies to mechanics.
(Not quite realistic.)
So with roster management in mind, it’s more of what a guild will tolerate. (I don’t think comp issues is quite the same as roster.) It’s different imo.
If anything, opening up mythic raid’s lockout would give a perception of the raid being harder. Because pugs will join, realize how much coordination it takes, one person leaves and then a gaping mechanical hole exists someone else has to fill in etc.
Comp issues are very much a roster issue. This is one of the reasons the top guilds have such an advantage. This season we saw what 4 DK’s on Ovi for the WF kill? Not many guilds can make comp adjustments because their roster doesn’t have players who can play the class/spec and/or don’t have geared characters
I really doubt that you’d get a situation where a pug was close to a kill on a boss, and then somehow communicates to members of a guild that they are close. Assignments have to change etc.
What I could see happening is that two guilds team up with both of their best players to get the kill. But then it doesn’t count as a guild kill.
I largely think this would open up guilds to a farm night and easier trials
I believe LFR is more popular than the other three difficulties combined. Even if you lost a portion of the normal/heroic/mythic crowd you would probably end up with more engagement.
Obviously there are external factors too. Many addon makers and influencers are raiding heroic and mythic and they bring things to the table that go beyond their sub fee and personal engagement metrics. They create content and promote engagement from other players, so it’s definitely not one-for-one in terms of customer value, but we are talking in the extreme here.
Perhaps a surgical reduction in difficulty could boost engagement without sacrificing too many hardcore players.
Again, I want to claim one is best, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned in life, it’s that nobody actually knows what’s best and anyone who claims to is deluding themselves.
I would agree that it would be nice if you had more groups that do less to no casts so you could do big pulls. Every dungeon should have at least one better two places where you pull 4 packs together. In those pulls there should not be more then two casters total with each only having one ability.
The damage pattern of those packs should be rot damage, so that those pulls are also engaging for a healer.
Everbloom first pull was ok but had two problems: The tank debuff that stacked and the random bees that applied the poison debuff on a single player. Those both abilities removed and it would have been a very fun pull.
The massive pull in Algethar Academy was so much fun. Where the tank went exactly was a big factor on how the pull played out because of the two pats. But if a tank wanted to take it somewhat “easy” on these pulls it still felt like a fun damage opportunity. And when the whole room was pulled with lust it was very satisfying
Depending on the group’s skill, a lot of time could be saved, with the risk going up with the key level. There were also tricks like stunning the mobs that jumped to random players mid-path, so it wasn’t void of mechanics. But as a dungeon it had a nice flow of big damage pull → mechanical pull → big damage pull. It was quite a fun dungeon.