I’m gonna do my best to keep this short and sweet.
After the Solo Shuffle tournament, it’s quite obvious Subtley Rogue is standout overpowered. Watching Kalvish consistently crit people for 235k with eviscerate is pretty concerning, and everyone is a FOTM meta reroller, especially after something in a tournament dominates.
Augmentation for example received a 25% upheaval nerf because Upheaval (15% from losing old 2 set, and another 10%, which is a 40 second CD I might add) was critting numbers like eviscerate.
Not to mention Sub Rogue has the highest concentrated burst damage in PvP, the very best instant cast and undispellable crowd control in the game, and has the defense of a tank in PvE. Couple this with the fact that you just run behind pillar if there is stun DR, so you only ever fight your opponent if it’s instant cast and undispellable stunned.
Tbh all 3 rogue specs are a bit overtuned but sub definitely is, and it will be worse with the changes being made increasing the dmg of their physical dmg.
Something they advertise on reddit and and here sometimes and they think its a good representation of the class from like 1-2 playing it in a tournament of less than 100 people
This but I’m getting concerned that class balance is strictly based off representation rather than performance at the highest level. I do love that most the community doesn’t play sub rogue (I doubt many people like playing against it).
While representation is a decent indicator, outlaw rogue for example has been the most powerful spec consistently throughout the expansions. Low representation but every major AWC tournament has outlaw in all 4 final comps. Just because the average ladder player doesn’t perform / doesn’t play it, doesn’t mean it’s undeserving of being brought down in line with other specs
Nerf Sub Rogue mastery by 25%. Eviscerate routinely critting for 235K with cool downs is not cool
Especially when you just nerfed upheaval by 25% (thru old 2 set + 10% recent nerf) which is a 40 second cooldown, that was critting like eviscerate which has no cooldown
Ahh…okay. Thanks. I don’t watch streams so I’m ignorant to that. I thought this was something Blizz or another organization put on that I missed in the news.
I’ll gladly play against the fotm rerollers all day, no one on the game plays sub rogue to the level kalvish does, and it’s very clear if you queue into the many many terrible sub rogues who popped up after that tournament.
There’s a HUGE difference between kalvish and your average 2k sub rogue.
Sub rogue has a higher skill cap than anything else. It’s fine for it to be strong by one of the top X players of it. Tone down the defensives a bit, damage is fine up to your team to help trade on the burst, biggest issue is they’re not a viable kill target in a lot of situations
But yeah going 17-1 vs the best players in the game in a shuffle environment was insane
I don’t believe that justifies making Sub Rogue dominate the top of the ladder in a toxic fashion. Sub Rogue is more forgiving and easy to play than ever before, you have access to your stealthed abilities as often as not, you have the best burst damage in game, the most instant cast and undispellable crowd control in game, and you are legitimately a tanking specialization now in PvP.
Mess up a stun DR, your a tank so you wont die, just run behind pillar, and wait 20 seconds till you can do it over again. Rinse and repeat till trinkets are gone, then you have an easy checkmate.
No one likes playing AGAINST sub rogues, not even other sub rogues
What made sub cool in classic wow, was that you were a glass cannon, very fitting to the subtlety rogue identity / lore
Strong disagree, Sub Rogue is incredibly forgiving at the moment, which IMO, makes it NOT the most difficult spec to play.
With how tanky you are, and how easy it is to run behind the pillar and wait for stun DR to play offensively. You have 2 shadowsteps, and shadowstep baked into ambush with shadowstrike (with no cooldown and frequent access to stealthed abilities)
Kalvish dominated the Solo Shuffle Tournament and made AWC Champions look leagues below him. Kalvish has never dominated in this fashion before, I am merely suggesting strong correlation to how OVERTUNED / OVERPOWERED Subtlety currently is.
Not sure 235k eviscerates are okay, especially with no CD on the spell. 40 sec CD upheaval was nerfed for this very reason…
I hear you, and agree with most of that. My point is sub rogue is by far the hardest spec to pick up from scratch and play at a tournament level
And also that what Kalvish did a bunch of other rogues tried and failed to do. And also that the way to balance rogues is nerfing defensives, not removing toolkit or offensive pressure
I am a reasonably good player. There is a massive difference between sub rogues you normally see and Kalvish. Because of the skill cap of rogue.