No one wants her as the new leader
Voss would be ok but why can’t we just be loyal to sylv still
99% of undead players are
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Maintaining public loyalty to Sylvanus would make you enemies of the Horde and the Alliance. You could, but you wouldn’t have a faction much longer.
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We get it. Calia bad. You are kicking a dead horse at this point.
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I mean, I’m good with Calia. Different take on Forsaken leader, and interested to see where it goes.
If nothing else, it beats having a leader who believes we are ‘nothing.’
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At this point I just see her as Alliance puppet leader. Inserted by the alliance in order to prevent the horde from going genocidal again.
Same with Baine but he is more homegrown.
More headcannon to be honest, but it would explain her backing.
And reason the horde just accept this is they are weak and have no real say on the political maneuvering done to them right now.
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I actually want her as a figurehead.
Good lol. Make another faction. I’m so tired of the pathetic Horde story about killing each other, being sad about the Alliance, and then trying to kill our own characters. If we’re not doing that then we’re just ignored. If there’s a chance I can play the game without having to put up with what they think is character development for the Horde I’d be ecstatic.
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I think having Calia adds an enormous amount of character development for the Forsaken. It’s very similar to Moria Bronzebeard when she took over the Dark Irons.
Some were ok with her and some were not. That’s what I want to see in the Forsaken. I want to see that divide and there should be divide. Sylvanas Windrunner despite her many faults was their savior. She freed those first few forsaken and offered them a second chance at life after the scourge.
If Blizzard fails to add divide between the ranks of the Forsaken, yes it’s a disservice to the race, but if they do add that, I think they have a really good story on their hands.
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Or, how about this plot twist.
That may be the Alliance’s plan but who says it’s Calia’s?
The Alliance may support her as a leader for exactly that reason, that she’s sympathetic to the Alliance’s cause but who’s saying she wouldn’t put her own people before the Alliance?
Calia has so much potential for a good character if she’s done right and isn’t deserving of all the hate she’s getting.
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She 100% is deserving of all the hate she gets. She represents a narrative that majority of Forsaken players (and a lot of Horde players in general) did not ask for and do not want. A complete 180 on the themes and characters that people have enjoyed for 15 years. The burning of Teldrassil has potential for good narrative developments too but it doesn’t mean it was actually a good idea to go through with it. When your story beats severely piss off the players of a race or faction to the point of hatred and resentment of the people telling the story you should think about whether it’s worth it. Seems like a lot of Alliance players think it’d be neat for the Forsaken to be totally whitewashed to make them more palatable at the expense of long time Forsaken and Horde players.
Just throwing Calia into the Forsaken and Horde with no actual development is what we’re currently getting so why does anyone think the rest of the story will be satisfactory and coherent?
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If 99% of the Forsaken players are still loyal to a leader that purposely started a war to induce the highest possible bodycount among all factions (Forsaken included), and then concluded it by saying “You all suck” (Forsaken included) before ditching everyone to leave them to deal with the surging Old God threat (Forsaken included!)…
Then I have no reason to trust that 99%'s standards when it comes to picking good leaders. Not that I have an easy time getting a consistent set of standards from that crowd that doesn’t involve exceptions or blindspots.
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How? This is your headcanon. Nothing about Calia changes ANYTHING about the Forsaken one bit.
The Story isn’t doing anything of the sort. You are the one pissing yourself off over your own imaginings of things the story hasn’t even done.
This is YOUR narrative but nothing even remotely supports it.
You’re bellyaching over your own bitter pill.
Calia is an Undead raised by a Naaru who isn’t affected by undeath like your typical Forsaken. Racial developments in game from Blizzard tend to come from the top, main characters, and not the bottom, your typical Forsaken. Any themes and stories for them will pass through her first and I don’t see her carrying on the Forsaken traditions. I’m sure a lot of people see that as a good thing. I, and many others, do not.
It sure is. We’ve been discussing Calia since BTS came out two years ago. We’ve been discussing the Burning of Teldrassil for two years. Not just on these forums. If you think there hasn’t been a ton of resentment over either development you havent been paying attention.
2 years of observing the pattern of Alliance players telling Forsaken and Horde players why Calia is actually a good thing for us. Not all of them, which is nice, but certainly more Alliance players see this as a positive than Horde players.
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What do you think the forsaken are about?
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The whole Horde denies the thought of Calia ruling the Forsaken.
Old orcs deny it with their death rattle and unborn trolls deny it in their mother’s wombs. They deny it in Quel’Thalas, and they deny it in Strangelthorn Vale.
No one wants Calia as Undead Queen.
Ah, but what are Forsaken racial mounts again?
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To this point, not including the arc in her backstory of going from a Scourge survivor to realizing Forsaken are people through Faol’s friendship, Calia’s arc has gone from wanting to get to know the Forsaken with no intent to lead, to being asked to help them and accepting but getting killed for her misreading the room, to accepting being raised into undeath and further tutelage from Faol to learn further, to doubting if she could be of help when a power vacuum shows up, to accepting Voss’ invitation to help and agreeing to help the undead raised from Teldrassil but not accept a leadership role (though Voss seems to be grooming her into that direction). And in the previews to the next novel, Calia is Voss’ plus one on the council.
Development is development. And it is quite “actual”. And it is still ongoing.
I know the tendency to hate Calia right now is to take her presumed future leadership of the Forsaken and superimpose it into the present and act like there’s zero development is a popular thing right now, but this is silly. Friendly reminder, it hasn’t happened yet.
1 Like
Roth, none of that is shown in game. Majority of people who play aren’t reading BTS. The only thing connecting Calia to the Forsaken and Horde in game is that one quest where Voss, who hasn’t even been Horde or Forsaken up to this point either, takes her to see the Undead Night Elves.
It’s completely jarring to go from that to her just suddenly being part of the Horde. Her development is clumsy and rushed and you can only really get a feel for her character if you read outside material. If they were planning to replace an OG Horde member and easily one of the most recognize franchise characters they should have done a better job building it up.
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We do suck
We do whatever we are told no questions asked for 10g
We are soldiers in tin plate
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…When you start your sentence off by saying “none of that is shown in game” and then say “except that conversation where Voss takes her to see the Undead Night Elves”… (Which isn’t even entirely correct, there are three ingame conversations in that summary, and two can be seen by Horde players, counting the Night Elves scene).
Also, while I can agree that more lore and development should be shown in the game, lore is lore, in-game or out.
There’s an exception, doesn’t mean the narrative that you laid out is easily accessible to Horde players. The fact that I can’t even remember the other instance of Calia being present in the Horde story and I am aware of her story compared to many people playing the game is a pretty good indicator to me that they haven’t done a good job of organically exposing Calia to Horde players in game. Almost all of her development takes place in a book.
My argument isn’t that Calia’s out of game lore doesn’t count its that they’ve done a piss poor job of setting her up as a Horde character in game. At least with replacing Thrall, while it was not the best choice, Garrosh was developed over the course of multiple expansions and Horde players knew who he was before he was shoved into a leadership role.
Saurfang is a good example of a character that they spent no time grooming for a political leadership role within the Horde but it didn’t matter because Horde players already knew who he was. It wasn’t a surprise to see that he was suddenly the leader of the Orcs post-MoP.
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