The claimed purpose of Nordrassil was to hide the Second Well from the Burning Legion. Well, we know how well that worked, don’t we?
Outstandingly until a lot of magic was used outside of Quel’Thalas’ enchanted barrier and thus attracted the attention of the Legion to Azeroth once more?
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Life isn’t fair. War is about change, not making sure everyone gets satisfied in the end. The Night Elves simply happen to be in the wrong place at the right time.
Funny how it’s okay that it’s unfair only when it’s happening to the Alliance though.
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That’s pretty much a concession that Nordrassil ceased to have a function long before Archimonde got his paws on it.
Not really?
Nordrassil masked the power of the Well of Eternity perfectly fine. It turned what should have been a glaring search beacon into nothing. The issue is some humans were lighting candles, and some demons spotted that.
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The Goblins don’t have their home back. Quel’thelas remains scarred, with much of it in ruins. And the Forsaken remain undead. The Alliance needs to go cry in a bucket.
Because when it happens to Horde, the Alliance explain in fifty different threads how it’s still unfair to the Alliance because it didn’t go far enough.
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Neither do the Worgen though. So that’s fair.
And actually, the Worgen lost two homes. Goblins still have their snazzy digs in Azshara.
Exodar is still trashed too. Again, fair.
And Night elves remain the joke race of the game.
So fair’s fair there.
I was talking more about when it comes to the two factions meeting in battle. The Horde always has to break even. Whereas if the Alliance loses something, there’s a vague promise of a reckoning, but none ever actually delivered because it means the Horde would have to lose something.
Why can’t the Horde lose Ashenvale? Because of zone balance. Why can’t they lose Hillsbrad? Zone balance. Why can’t they lose characters? Well they don’t have many characters so they can’t lose what they have left!
So what can the Horde lose? How can they feel loss, or strife, or that anything is at stake for them? If Alliance conquered the aforementioned zones and just kicked the Horde out, would that be okay? War’s unfair and all.
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Because it never does. If you tell me that you feel like the Alliance is mortal threat to the Horde then you will be lying to both me and yourself.
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Would you say that to the Taurajo Tauren that Baine exiled as well?
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Boy, there sure are a lot of feelings in this thread. Almost burned myself from the acid. Didn’t expect it. Downright caustic in some places. Someone should put down a hazard sign.
Of course, “WARNING: FLAMMABLE” should’ve been plastered over the first post but looks like it’s too late for that… 91, now 92 posts in.
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Who won the last Horde vs Alliance war? Hint: Not the Horde. It was the Alliance, aided by rebels.
Who ultimately wins every conflict between the Horde and Alliance? Hint: Other than the first one, it’s always the same side.
Of course the Alliance is a mortal threat to the Horde. The Horde’s the villain. This is generic heroic fantasy. The villain is defeated in the end.
But if you think nothing bad ever happens to the Horde, then you don’t know the Horde. Internment camps, losing every relevant character in our story, having Orgrimmar and Undercity raided twice each with Dazar’alor being something new and different and who knows what city will be a raid to kill Sylvy, and more. Plenty of bad happens to us. To make your team look more heroic.
But wait, you mean our races don’t get crapped on? How about WoD teaching us that orcs weren’t evil because of demon’s blood, they were evil regardless? Or the entire Forsaken race being relevant only because Sylvannas is relevant, and nothing other than Sylvannas gets more than a token mention? How about we talk about orcs again, and how in MoP with no demon’s blood we saw the orcs behave exactly like they did with demon’s blood? I mean jeez, the only real development orcs ever get is to devolve them into a variant of their WC1 version. Tauren are the race with the least development in the game (fight me on that, gnomes) beyond how much cooler their cousin-races are than them, which might not be a bad thing. If a Horde race gains new story development (other than blood elves and trolls), it is literally to crap all over them.
So no. It doesn’t only happen to the Alliance.
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I too, feel like a victor when I give the enemy back their city, and a zone to maintain peace.
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I never said nothing bad happens to Horde. I said that when the two meet it is always framed as the Alliance cannot overstep their bounds without risking everything. The Horde is constantly portrayed as more powerful, more capable; untouchable and inscrutable. Any attempt Blizzard makes at making the Alliance feel like a threat is toothless.
The fact that you’re bringing up internment camps, nothing that happened in game, proves to me the depths you will go in order to justify this absurd notion that the Alliance feels like a tangible entity in this story.
I play Horde too. I’m saying this as someone who is also playing Horde. I do not feel threatened by the Alliance. I feel like they are weak, and I don’t feel like they have any chance in winning this war against the Horde.
They’re constantly portrayed so, in fact. They can’t even retake Darkshore, they’re spread so thin everywhere. We’re told that the Alliance is winning, but we’re not shown that.
Do you remember the Horde war campaign. Horde obliterates Alliance every time they meet. It’s always framed like this. If the Horde didn’t help the Alliance win, the Alliance could never win. So does that feel good for the Horde or Alliance? Alliance feel impotent, and the Horde feel like they have no worthy adversary.
This “well bad stuff happens to us too” idea is missing the point entirely. Bad things happen to the Alliance and the Horde. But the Horde is constantly portrayed as the stronger of the two. And this attitude of “Well the Alliance can’t hit us because we don’t have enough to lose!” is the exact reason why the Alliance will never feel like actual threats or actors. Nothing they do has weight.
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I really hope you’re not trying to insinuate the Alliance didn’t win there, because it goes back to what I said earlier. To paraphrase; when the bad crap happens to Horde, the Alliance explain how it’s still unfair to the Alliance because it didn’t go far enough.
Ok but actually explain what the Alliance won in that scenario though.
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At best it’s a victory over Garrosh while forming a ceasefire with the Horde.
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I get why you feel that way, but once again; in any conflict between the two factions, the Alliance ultimately ends up the victor. Hard to call them toothless when they ultimately win. Hard to say they aren’t a threat when their losses only lead to an inevitable victory. The Horde can slaughter thousands of Alliance soldiers, burn down their cities, bomb their towns, and two years later? The Alliance is standing victorious, with those Horde who ran to them for aide beside them. Hell, they just got done raiding another Horde city and wiping out the Zandalari fleet. Word of God is that the Horde’s on the verge of losing. You don’t get more threatening than walking into someone’s home, taking out the landlord, then walking away past the smoldering wreck of their car.
I get it. I really do. The Alliance feels like they just don’t even throw a punch, until the last patch which they throw so hard that they just plain win the entire fight. But you can’t say there’s no threat when you already know the outcome won’t be in your favor.
If anything, I’d say neither faction can ever feel like a real threat. As soon as we knew Sylvannas ordered the burning of Teldrassil, we knew how the entire war would end.
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