The fact that they were the ones who attacked first still remains though. Sympathetic or not, they instigated the situation and made it worse
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No I am saying the Horde shouldnt get a pass for stealing Alliance ships. That it is hypocritical to use as justification that they are only “trying to escape conflict” by literally causing one in the first place.
They didn’t. They caused some conflict to get Grommash and his clan out of jail, but as for stealing the ships? They snuck into the town of Southshore during the night and stole them.
On the onset of the Third War, Thrall gave the order to assemble the orcish clans in order for the new Horde to leave the continent and travel to Kalimdor. They skirmished with Alliance Forces and freed Grommash Hellscream and his Warsong clan,[8] later secretly infiltrating the town during the night to steal its ships so they could sail to Kalimdor.[9]
They could have abandoned Grom to his fate.
They could have decided “yeah, this isnt right, lets leave and if Grom gets curb stomped by the Alliance that is on him”.
Or is that only something the Alliance should do when someone like Daelin starts crap?
When/if the Alliance Expedition ever discovered Thrall’s forces, they would have attacked them regardless after Grom did his thing.
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The Alliance forces was literally not attacking and only reacted once Grom launched his forces.
Do you think that they would have attempted to make some form of distinction between Thrall and his forces? Jaina’s first reaction was to prepare for an attack after encountering Thrall when they had first met Medivh. Orcs and trolls are well, orcs and trolls.
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That is because Jaina’s forces she had station were attacked by both Thrall and Grom. Jaina of all people would avoid violence. But considering Thrall and Grom forces had already attacked her forces, there is no reason for her not to strike Thrall.
I think you need to remember that they were already in a conflict before the ships, Doomhammer’s death and the destruction of Durnholde had just happened. The orcs fully believed that the Alliance was an enemy.
EDIT: Also, they believed the Alliance had chased them over the seas; it’s not a great reason but it does explain why Grom would be trigger happy about attacking them.
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Shouldn’t that make it worse than mistaking them for demons, which would be a more understandable reason to shoot on sight? If the night elves knew they were refugees and hoping they’d pass through, that should’ve been all the more reason to go for a diplomatic approach instead of killing.
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Did I say this part was ommited? Look, I am working otherwise I would post the entire thing/give the full thing.
The passage really plays up that the Night Elves don’t like logging, calling it a ‘war on the forest’. Apparently they’ve never dealt with races that don’t have druids to ask the forest for lumber.
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How have night elves gotten along with humans and dwarves so well over the years, considering both peoples chop down trees and harvest their lumbers as well? One would think the nelves would be appalled and protest much against such behaviors, creating friction between them and the dwarves/humans.
Sadly this is never touched on IIRC.
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I would get the answer, but diablo time, later.
I don’t think the night elves are as strident about defending trees that aren’t in their own domain, so they likely care less about logging in Elwynn compared to someone chopping down one of Ashenvale’s ancient trees.
That and the whole ‘why/how did the night elves join the Alliance post WCIII’ lore has never been fleshed out. I’d love to see answers to questions like the above, and how well night elves tolerated their allies having practicing mages.
I also like the idea of the night elves not understanding that other races don’t immediately understand that wisps’ presence = do not log:
Orc: “So, why did you attack us without warning when we were travelling in Ashenvale?”
Night elf: “Warning? We sent wisps! Far more wisps than you needed to get such a simple point! By Elune, can’t you read forest magic signs?” storms off
Orc and Human exchange confused glances: “…No?”
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did the nelves ever apologize for killing this random innocent human? I guess the double sins of ‘getting along with orcs’, and ‘being in nelf territory uninvited’ still made it a justified death even after everything and they joined the Alliance?
oh actually he was just one of many humans the nelves killed
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That wasn’t a warning.
They weren’t remotely offended by the orcs presence.
They were gleefully tormenting them.
Far more (Mads Mikkelson) Hannibal Lecter than righteous defender of holy land.
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Weren’t some of the kaldorei pretending to be ghosts or something and that’s why the orcs initially thought the woods were haunted?
IIRC, those were just wisps.
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Oh, right. It’s been ages since I replayed WC 3 
Something along the lines of “Orcs 're bad, plus they live next door, so night elves need help”
That doesn’t strike me as being very “druidic”. One would think they’d care about all of nature, not just their own forests.
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So say if humans went into thunder ridge and cut down all the trees there is no harm in that right? I mean the Horde have no room to complain about what daelin’s people did in durotar if they can’t see what they did in ashenvale as wrong.
Honestly the horde just has double standards for almost every instance of conflict.
If you want the horde to be better, then stop trying to sugar coat all the Hordes crimes behind weak excuses.
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Difference is the alliance has no shortage of resources because Blizzard cared enough to put your races in zones where you can perform agriculture and harvest lumber. Thunderridge was the Orcs only source of wood and it is impossible to build houses without it. The barrens and durotar are wastelands and the EK allies are too far away. Ashenvale was the most obvious choice and until Varian came and forced the night elves to stop allowing the Orcs a place in the east because of the wrathgate. Now that Varian is gone and can’t stop progress due to his ego and hate on the Horde hopefully our relationship grows again.
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