Alright everyone, let’s just take a lil break. Holy paladin pumps now. Our spells actually be spellin out here.
Sure there’s still some goofy business (why does wog hit for ~30% of a holy shock) but let’s just enjoy being functional for a moment.
Also, trying pairing infusion with divine favor, is actually worth casting (but no, this is absolutely not an invitation to do more casting, it just justifies the fact that we have to)
Most recent class changes are nerfing both holy shock and word of glory, I expect them to repeat this until we’re unplayable. This is the way.
If this is coming from the live servers testing. don’t get excited. we are putting the beta numbers with 1.5M HP vs 5.5M HP in the WW at 613 Item level. You read the #1 Paladin post, it’s still kind of bad in M+. Definitely better than before tho 
Pre-patch feels amazing. Maybe too amazing. 30%-40% HP crit WoG’s to 60%-70% HP crit. I’m loving it but also questioning it at the same time. Prism even feels like a decent AoE heal without Beacon of Virtue up.
What gives with Veneration though? Better yet, what gives with our DPS? Am I just bad? Are we meant to do such little damage to accommodate for our new heal throughput? Is that intentional?
Veneration hits for nothing now and heals for just about the same. Even a BoV vennie is downright useless.
Is that expected? Are things different on the beta?
Nope, our damage is awful even if that’s all you’re focusing on. At 80, on the beta, Resto Druid can do the same/more dps by only casting Starfire.
I don’t agree that we should stop complaining, our build and playstyle are basically the same as they were for the majority of DF. We’re less interesting to play and have less skill expression without Glimmer. All of the same dead talents. Melee wings is still bad and hasn’t been iterated on really. Lightsmith feels undertuned.
I’m hoping for something before season 2 this time (and hoping it doesn’t immediately get nerfed into the ground and abandoned again).
Edit: Glimmer is just a personal opinion, don’t get too caught up on the skill expression phrase. I’ll stop mentioning it because it tends to derail. I just want to see some progress on our dead talents and to have some interesting choices to look forward to.
Ouch…
These changes feel like DF S2 → S3 Discipline all over again. The class was technical to a point it required mastering to put the most out of it. All it needed was numbers tuning and it would’ve been my main for the rest of the expansion.
But no, they “buffed” it by gutting it. Too much technicality was the issue, not basic math. Removing tools was the answer.
Removal of Glimmer somewhat feels the same. I think my over-aching issue is we’re now a HS + WoG spam with little to no thought involved (You can’t exactly SotR on demand to get that Dawn buff when healers have unpredictable jobs).
Before the pre-patch, HPal felt like it had a lot of moving pieces you needed to focus on. I would even go as far to argue it was the difficulty healers (And other party members) needed to A) put out [just barely above] mediocre heals (lol) and B) make people do their dang jobs.
Now, I dunno. I’m glad it’s better after a season of suffering but it’s just not as engaging anymore. RIP S4 Holy Paladin and S2 Disc Priest. You’ll both be missed dearly.
I’m sorry everyone, didn’t know. Let’s keep providing feedback haha, what a bummer D;
I didn’t really find it engaging before at all. Glimmer was capped at 8 targets, it was extremely easy to maintain that. Then you just press your cds as needed. There wasn’t much complexity behind it.
When glimmer was uncapped in bfa? Sure, because getting 20 glimmers out right before wings or at the start of wings to pump healing for the duration of wings was a skill ceiling. When I used to review logs for ppl that was the primary problem for most hpals, they’d only be getting 14-15 glimmers during their wings.
What glimmer has been is a shell of its former self. It really didn’t do anything for gameplay imo. Personally I would’ve loved to see the spec reworked entirely around glimmer and have it be uncapped again or capped at 15 maybe idk.
I think hpal feels better without SL>DF glimmer though. The gameplay is HS WoG focused now but if these abilities hit hard it feels good (seeing nerfs for them on beta does not fill me with confidence though). Hpal just had too much going on that something had to go, like I said glimmer wasn’t my first choice to get axed but I understood why they went for it.
I only mentioned Glimmer because the OP brought it up. Personally for me, it was useless.
What was more useful was Toll + Daybreak.
Or Tyr’s Deliverance + Daybreak.
Or Beacon of Virtue + Any AoE/Strong heal.
Or good management of Holy/Flash of Light.
And so on.
Now it feels like we have tools we press on demand the same as every other healer. S4 was hard yeah, way harder than any other healer, but that’s what made it appealing.
I don’t want S3 Disc or S2 Mistweaver or TWW Holy Pally. I want S4 Holy Pally with mathematical values that make a difference.
Kudos to the folks who like this change, I’m glad for them. I lost, yet again, another healer I enjoyed playing (Even though it was hard as heck).
Yeah I’m disagreeing with you about it being hard. It was one of the easiest versions of hpal I’ve played. None of the things you listed were challenging, they are very straight forward. Tyrs uptime was basically passive, 2 holy lights from hand of divinity extended it just about all the way with not much thought. You don’t manage holy light/flash of light, there is one that is almost always better than the other outside of divine favor if you talent that. Tyrs deliverance+daybreak has no connection outside of rising sunlight helping extend, but that will happen passively regardless. I’m sorry but hpal was not harder than any other healer in S4 or S3. It was one of the easier ones for sure. Removing glimmer and daybreak doesn’t change that either, it’s just as easy. Glimmer being capped at 8 practically made it passive too.
Hpal has never really been the healer with “the high skill ceiling” though. In almost every iteration hpal has been a reactionary healer with big single target heals and/or small group size heals. The only time it didn’t in recent times was in bfa when you had to preemptively get glimmers out because it was uncapped and in Legion with Aura of Sacrifice as you could do some prepping to make it huge. That’s about it. DF has been the easiest variations (CS HS LoD spam s1, AC s2, casting/glimmer s3) I’ve played.
Right. I’m not here to argue with you. HPal might have been the easiest it’s ever been, but you know what’s even easier right now? Mistweaver Monk. Discipline Priest.
So keep it chill will ya?
Per your standards I’ll bet you nothing is difficult in this game.
Again, I’m not here to argue with you. I did my time in M+ to make my remarks and I’ll leave em at that.
I wouldn’t say hard per say… it definitely required more effort to get the same result as some of the other healers. That’s not necessarily a good thing though.
I actually agree with you. Daybreak was one of my favorite skills to press. our S2 rework was perfect it was just nerfed to the point that we couldn’t do anything. Blizzard was afraid of holy paladins (they still are) because the fantasy of the holy paladin is one of the most appealable fantasies for most of the healers. but even casting tyr+HoD wasn’t that bad because it was not a big deal if you missed the HoD for any reason. S3 and S4 if you missed HoD you were screwed because it was one of your major CDs since everything was so bad.
Now in beta we are just a holy shock + wOg machine. which is fine I rather be full melee than be hard casting in melee range. It’s just that I miss Daybreak
I definitely miss daybreak, I wish we could have kept something similar instead of adding the bonus shocks on wings.
This playstyle is sorta reminding me of season 1 shadowlands, but with a few more options which is nice.
I would enjoy one more CD, even if it was a shortish one, like a minute, AOE burst or something.
Id like better melee gameplay.
I like the tuning as or right now so I’m okay with the changes but I’m sad this tuning will get worse D;
I would agree for sure that s2 rework was very good at the start but the nerfs completely killed it. That is definitely true, we even had both melee and caster builds viable and both were really fun.
I also agree that daybreak was very fun. Daybreak divine toll was one of my favorite combos to press in this game, so I was sad to see that go. I am glad we keep rising sunlight though because that was a big reason why it was fun for me. It works with both divine toll and wings, so that feels good imo. Tyrs deliverance is not great now so idk and honestly I haven’t really liked Tyrs much, its been pretty boring as a cd the only thing I liked about it was how strong it was but if it doesnt have that its just pretty boring, like its basically just a passive cd. If that could get replaced with a daybreak esque 1 min cd that would be cool. Not sure how to work that in though.
I’m not trying to complaing. Hpal feels miles better than late S2, and all of S3/S4 from DF.
Do we have to stop feedback regarding the spec? Dont think so either. Lightsmith still needs some work. Some talents in both trees could be reworked. Our DPS is still pretty awful (even though it’s largely irrelevant and has been all of DF).
Buuut, this is actually functional and fun to play. I would rather have 1 build that plays great and works healing wise, than the absolute abomination we had to endure for more than half of DF. Any day.
This changes were just to offset the horrible decisions taken during the S2 Rework and now we are kinda in the same place where we started before 10.1.5. Actually we are better throughput wise but worse utility/mitigation wise.
How do we survive using Light of the Martyr now? Divine Toll will kill us. I loved using HS and WoG. lol
For a brief moment on beta that was how it felt to heal with it in M+.
Then they started nerfing the crap out of it, and now it’s just sad feeling in comparison.
Huh?
Not sure about others but to me kind of feels the same?, I guess I can say Sun’s Avatar doesn’t feel as OP as it did at the start but still very powerful… As far as the main abilities go I don’t think they have been too noticeable.
If anything I’d say the hype of playing it and feeling amazing has gone down a bit but that’s more related with getting used to it (no longer beeing “new”) than any actual nerfs changing the feeling of it.
Like I get Blizzard has at times gone too hard on nerfs but honeslty at least up to now I think they have been pretty measured, that can change ofc and if those continue it could reach a bad spot but I feel it’s still pretty far from that. I think the biggest one was this past week with WoG nerfed by 13% but don’t forget that it had just been buffed by 10% a week prior so it’s kind of not really a big change…
The new playstyle is far less engaging than before but I enjoy lotm A LOT and virtue is still fun. The prism buffing holy light is nice but a little overkill at the moment.
For mythic Plus we either need more interactions like what prism is doing (maybe allow us to also pick up the other option instead of making them a choice node together)
Or more interesting DMG options.
For raid we need better AOE, reduce the mana cost of virtue, and for the love of God, give us an actual way to save mana somehow. Infusion+flash does nothing