No mage changes in the PTR? really?

How exactly would you go about extrapolating that? I’m genuinely curious, because either I lack a very large section of knowledge, or I’m right and there literally is not a way to extrapolate DPS parses to quantify difficulty. You might be able to do some basic division of lowered DPS across same parties but that would still be guesswork.

You can calculate how much average damage needs to be done to bosses, ads, and shields before a hard or soft enrage timer with an approximate range for what dps needs to pull without any deaths or mistakes. This number scales with players in your raid group.

But it’s generally easier to calculate for mythics because the group number has to be 20. It’s why you’re seeing a lot of rogues and enhancement shamans and prot warriors getting played because there were winners and losers in the current meta.

MOST specs can clear up to heroic content fine when played optimally but mythic is a lot tighter with few mistakes being made.

Just always keep in mind for mythic raids:

-You need 20 players
-The 20 players have to be on your realm only until 100 guilds clear the final boss
-Plenty of mechanics are instakill raid wipes if one mistake is made, so no disconnections can happen, and lag is a risk!
-Players need to be running weak auras that tell you how to do your rotation so they can think less while doing mechanics (which some players find unfun)

Every spec can be taken to mythic

*can be

is very different from

*will be

Admittedly, I only checked the first one through your link and the rest defaulted to all percentiles, but there’s also max where Arcane is pulling ahead substantially.

you got your wish. frost and fire are getting boosts next patch. THIS COMING TUESDAY

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Good thing each class has multiple specs. If you limit yourself to one spec then you don’t have the mindset for mythic raiding.

That’s what you get for being a Void elf

Is this what you would call an accurate measure of difficulty?

Yeah, raw numbers do. Raw numbers do not make up the bulk of added difficulty, they just artificially raise the minimum item level and stat optimization needed for completion. It also punishes poor rotational play more, but given the parses people get in RWF, you don’t need to be perfect on that, either. That’s not a secret, though.

I play with OCE frequently with no problem.

No one demands rotation WAs. Literally no one. Not even RWF players use them ubiquitously. Some use things to track buffs, and I do too, because I don’t want to look at my buffs to see how much MSW I have, or how long is left on Barbed frenzy.

So, unless you think higher HP and higher outgoing damage is the equivalent to all difficulty, I fail to see how you’d be extrapolating accurately.

Since I keep being accused of being toxic I’m going to actually do it.

I found out why he is pushing so hard to make heroic “high end” content.

I think being able to successfully pull off mechanics as a group while meeting your dps checks is an accurate enough gauge of difficulty (healers have to meet their healing quotas and be in the right positions but I’m talking dps role here). There is nothing else to guage difficulty at all if you don’t think these two things matter.

Sure, so let’s extrapolate that data through DPS parses…

Wait, that’s not how parses work. I have two terrible parses on my two Heroic bosses so far (I’ll spare you the excuse, it’s on my record and I have to live with it until I log myself again. These things happen.)

I cleared no problem. :thinking: You can check how much damage I took, and I definitely didn’t do mechanics perfectly, either, though I did do well enough.

And for the record, I was far from the worst in taking damage on those fights, either. I’m not sure where I fell for DPS on those pulls, I don’t think I was dead last but it was not a respectable time.

That’s because somebody (probably multiple people) carried you by picking up the slack and overperforming in the average group dps bracket.

You failed as an individual but succeeded as a group. This gets easier to do as more loot drops for your collective group. That’s what “getting a carry” is called.

Because your group has to be good enough at communication and doing mechanics. Many groups have difficulty communicating, organizing callouts, being in the right position, doing interrupts, etc.

You also have to have the proper gear in this level to beat dps checks. This is a game that relies on stats. You can do every mechanics right and do your rotation right but simply have too low of a gear level.

Gear drops require time investments. You can get lucky with a drop, or you can spend a long time playing getting what you don’t need and underperforming through little fault of your own.

This is why your group’s (if you have one-- many people who play this game do not) communication abilities is a safety net of sorts.

They didn’t. These logs are public, people did better than me, but no slack was picked up. Average parses were the norm.

But let’s assume this was the case. Why wouldn’t that be feasible for the tons of people you say “can’t” Heroic raid?

I know you aren’t talking about people being carried when you’re equal or under your tanks damage on every normal fight I looked at.

I mean I also don’t use stat pots becasue $$$$ and I also enjoy learning fights at my own pace. I havn’t denied being carried before in terms of dps. :man_shrugging: But I am often middle of the pack in my own raid group.

Well then you lied about underperforming I guess? I don’t know what to tell you if your parses were average and you did what you called a bad pull.

If you’re playing an enhancement shaman, they’re currently one of the best dps specs in the game.

The parses don’t lie. What you’re missing is that Heroic doesn’t demand nearly as much from people as you make it out to.

My parses were not average. The group’s was. Mine were god awful for these two pulls.

I am aware that Enhancement is doing well right now. We also bring WFT, which makes rogues, monks, DH, etc. better. Though I’m not sure why you believe this to be relevant.

EDIT: Apologies, on the Sennarth log there was one person performing quite well. You could argue he ‘carried’ but the pulls were not so demanding that anyone had to go above and beyond to finish the fights. They didn’t even go that poorly, I just performed atrociously.

I was assuming you were talking about the average parse number required to down the boss, not the average of all players doing the boss.

Do you at least get the point?

No one went turbo gamer. We had some underperformers, of which I was one, and some people performing average at best (particularly on our Dathea pull).

I was pugged in, a friend of one of the healers. This was not difficult, and I was high out of my mind at the time. Nor am I anything special, as you can easily tell via just my achievements, even.