I kinda find using gs wonky especially with frozen orb giving fof every 3 seconds and frostbolt/flurry having a chance to give 2 icicles.
is it viable to not use GS in the current meta, and instead put a point into a talent that increases ice lance dmg?
Thanks
Now that GS damage actually scales with mastery, it’s going to be hard to beat as a single target talent. Your best bet is to use talents that give you extra damage for not casting GS to make up for it. It probably doesn’t make up for the lost ST damage at all but cold front + freezing winds is probably your best bet in leiu of GS, because every extra frostbolt you’re casting instead of GS now gives extra damage from that frozen orb proc and resulting FoF procs.
You may not beat out GS, but if you’re bad at using GS playing a build you are comfortable with optimally beats playing a meta bad terrible most of the time. In BFA I ran a totally off-meta arcane spec that relied more on mana regen and extra AM damage and I would regulary outdps arcane mages at my ilvl (compared to my raid, i wasn’t watching logs), sometimes higher because pulling off the arcane burst windows in BFA was really hard. The DPS meter is your friend and the only person you’re trying to beat is yourself. I probably wouldn’t have done well as a Mythic raider but I probably didn’t have the skill for it anyway.
Also shattering GS shatters icicles, so you’ll probably want to modify your ST rotation a bit to do the same. Whenever you’re shattering BF flurry, don’t kill the last shatter debuff with an IL proc immediately. Cast frostbolt again, then hit IL just after. If you’re standing far enough away, IL should beat frostbolt because it has a higher projectile speed. The cast time on frostbolt should give you plenty of time to let your icicles all shatter on the target (because you cast an IL right after flurry I’m assuming. I’m not sure if the debuff will last that long, but if it does, that’s the way you can shatter an IL still while shattering your iciles. Now that I’m thinking about it, I’m starting to doubt the debuff will last long enough to shatter another IL after letting your icicles fire and that’s probably where the pain point on ice lance happened with this dev on the previous iteration of frost mage.
Pre patch, when i tested cold front it was kind of annoying because the buff for stacking frostbolt casts only lasts like a minute or so, so it’s damage that’s hard to get anywhere outside of group content or raiding. I thought that was kind of lame. maybe they buffed it.
Problem with GS is that there’s simply no alternative talents to pick, even something weaker. You just have to not pick it and lose dps. You can do that, dps difference is noticable, but not super high unless you do like 20 keys and mythic raid
I’m in mythic raid right now (only 3/9) and don’t use glacial spike. I’m generally in the top 5 or close to it and I don’t run glacial spike. I parse blue usually with some variance depending on boss and outside influence like PI, but I hate the talent and agree with what’s said above. Could I be doing more damage with proper GS usage? Most likely. Is GS fun/ intuitive/ easy for me? No.
Play what’s comfortable for you and if you’re not holding the group back, you’re doing fine.
I went for a Comet Storm/Glacial Assault build. I get many procs, and the 6% frost damage debuff is nice.
I guess you could take Chain Reaction rather than GS, if you’re not already. Other than that, you’re right. There’s not a lot of options. While I think most people are pretty happy with the changes, they haven’t actually increased choice, which I thought was the whole point of the talent trees. Otherwise, why not just give players these talents baseline every level - is the idea of having a point to spend really that exciting?
The capstones in particular could have been tweaked to offer more choice. No one takes Cold Front, and it feels like it suits the position of Coldest Snap more. Why not reduce the number of frostbolt/flurry and make it competitive with something like GS as a choice node. Similarly, buff Splintering Ray so it gives a viable option for AoE burst against GS. Buff Snowstorm and move it to the same place as Coldest Snap as a competitive CoC option.
I personally don’t mind GS and never have an issue with it because Ice Floes is amazing, but I am also a strong believer in having choice. Hopefully there are further tweaks as time goes by that allow for more options in build that doesn’t affect output as much as it does playstyle.
They did back in MoP, all the way through to shadowlands, players didn’t like it. And apparently it was, just the level up music wasn’t enough, they had to have their points too, even if it just went to “Increase your damage by X%”, or “Pick this or your spec just doesn’t work.” talents.
Unfortunately, with how the devs are working Frost, we’re never going to be at a point in time where you’ll have freedom of choice in spells. The rotation doesn’t allow it. The meta may be “use all the spells”, but you honestly don’t have to. Unless you’re super cutting edge, you can clear Mythic doing 75% of the meta damage.
Why is it always people that don’t actually raid make these claims?
Which claims? That the meta is “use all the spells”, you can do mythic without being meta, or that you’ll only be dong a hyperbolic 75% of what meta would be doing?
Also, please don’t make assumptions about people you do not know, it’s a very rude habit.
You can do mythic and handicap your team. Imagine actively choosing to do less than optimal damage.
You’re 408. It’s not an assumption.
See, this is the kind of negativity we don’t need on the forums or even in-game. Please, stop this rhetoric. Let people have fun playing the game the way they want to and stop trying to tell them they’re bad for doing so.
I’m not being negative. I’m stating facts.
I never said people can’t play what they want to play. However raiding at a mythic level is a team based game and if you play the way you suggested you are by default hurting your team which is what I said.
I never called anyone bad actually. I stated the fact you’re hurting your team.
Please take your own advice and stop making things up.
Alot of people don’t play optimally and actively play worse with the more complicated optimal talents. You don’t have to be that good at the game to raid cutting edge.
I never said anything disagreeing with this.
You mean carried to CE. End of the day you’re actively hurting your team by not playing optimally.
Maybe I’m being a bit of a rebel, but I hate it when people tell me I must take a certain build to succeed. Glacial Spike is not my idea of fun. I’m not taking it even if it simulates higher.
You also don’t do content where it matters and that’s totally fine. However in the context we are speaking about (mythic raiding) it does matter.
Only if you’re going cutting edge or top 500 guild. If your group doesn’t mind, you’re fine if you don’t play the optimal way. And before you repeat, I know I know the response of “and they’ll be carrying you” or some other form of “you’re being a burden to them”. Again, play as you like, let others as well. If you only want the “optimal” players, by all means, find groups like that.
Course, you’ld have to actually raid to do that.
Incorrect. Doesn’t matter what level of mythic you’re doing if you’re not running optimal builds you are handicapping your team. That’s the point blank fact. Heroic and below you’re fine because those damage checks are much easier.
I actually raid. Working on mythic Mag tonight.
What if choosing gs makes you do less damage because you can no longer execute the rotation perfectly. Alot of players aren’t playing perfectly but have too big of an ego to admit it.
I’ve been an orange parsing mythic raider for a long time and I’ve played alot of non meta builds over the years. I remember playing a bleed build back in bfa on my assassination rogue when poison was meta. I remember parsing over 90th playing oblit on my frost dk. I never pick stellar flare on my boomie even though it’s often a dps increase. There are very few people that actually play their rotation optimally and making statements like:
Implies that people are. Also I’m sorry but getting cutting edge really isn’t that hard. You can be completely dogwater at the game and get it every season. I’ve been in a few guilds where the vast majority were parsing around 50-60th percentile.
You’re still choosing to do less damage. If you’re doing more damage as an inferior build then you should actually work on your rotation.
Bleed ended up being meta
Easy to say hiding on a level 12.
I’ll beleive it when I see it.