Tl;dr 10 friends raiding, some of us haven’t seen upgrades for 3+ weeks and some of us may not see 4 set at this rate. Increase 10 man loot. Increase 25 man loot as well, we don’t care. Or make 25 man give everyone a special medal/title/mount for how much harder and truly “classic” it is. We don’t care. We just want 10 man to feel a bit more natural in progression.
My group of ten friends who have played multiple different games over the years have enjoyed progressing through Cata and appreciate having a chance to get the best loot in the game in the size of raid that we prefer.
However, the number of drops off ten man bosses has meant that some of our members, myself included, are not receiving loot week after week and thus not seeing meaningful improvements in our output. This is feeding into some resentment as heroic fights sometimes do not feel easier despite doing them multiple times. And then loot does drop and it’s often the same item that had dropped every week and thus unusable.
Further, we’ve had a streak of 7 bosses dropping conq tokens despite only two of our raiders needing this token. Myself and the other protector totem users have not seen a helm/shoulder token this patch. Accordingly, we do not even have four set despite clearing this raid what 10 times now?
Please consider adding one more loot drop to 10 man bosses. If it is done, add one or two more to 25 man. We do not care if 25 man has a higher incentive. We simply want to raid in our tight knit group that we can reliably get together every week.
We haven’t seen a protector normal tier helm or shoulders drop.
We want to raid 10 man. The gear progression in this size is glacial right now. If 25 mans need their loot progression to be even better, we don’t care—-make 25 man award full BiS after clearing it—we just want more of a chance to feel like we are progressing as a group and the 2 loot pieces dropping often means duplicates or unusable items and the excitement and fun of raiding with your close friends is dampen ed.
I do not understand this obsession with the gatekeeping of loot progression to 25 man. We really don’t care if 25 man has more loot. We want to play 10 man, but also feel like Blizzard isn’t laughing in our face with the horrible loot RNG that is 2 drops per boss from the giant loot pools.
I’m praying there’s some sort of happy medium where the brainiacs of these forums realize it doesn’t have to be a zero sum game and maximizing the amount of fun people have in 10 and 25 man is better for the game.
We don’t care about the incentive differences or parity. We want the loot progression to feel better in 10 man and two pieces per boss is gruelling. If that means Blizzard needs to appease the 25 man raiders with more drops or incentives—please do so!
You’re just complaining though. That isn’t something that changes when complainers get their way. The game just gets indefinitely worse for those who aren’t complaining, and the complainers just complain about something else, or even more about the change!
Anyway, if they removed 25m or reduced 25m loot would that solve “your issue?”
FWIW, I’m just commenting with my own opinions on these general forums. I’m not a gatekeeper nor decision maker. Maybe someone at Blizzard will think, “Hey, let’s cater to this complaint,” as they often do.
Putting a nonchalant emoji at the end of each of your status quo defence posts does not detract from your bad faith arguments.
I at no point suggested removing 25 mans. You again bring the contest between the sizes into it. I have repeated that we want to raid 10 man and our issue is with loot in that raid size. If 25 man needs a better incentive, maintain that while improving the 10 man experience.
And, yes, it’s a complaint. Complaints are how you make change in this world. I’m sure you’re quite happy with how everything is as it is, but there are others that believe in making improvements.
A part of WoW raiding is the loot progression. It is fun for me and my friends to get stronger. If there is little to no loot progression in Cata 10 mans, there’s a higher chance one of my friends finds the game less fun and does not want to show up to raid. They will simply find another game to play.
People will continue to raid 25 man for loot efficiency, faster BIS, and higher parses.
Unfortunately, you can’t escape the zero sum game. I’m sorry for your limited capacities and fear of change.
That’s understandable, however doing 10 player raids is a choice, and different choices must be rewarded differently.
I don’t think the critics of equal loot between the different raid sizes make the arugment that it is a zero sum game. I don’t see it as an issue of if you get loot, I don’t. I see it as an issue of incentives, structure, presentation, and congruence.
That much is clear. Most players want what they want, when they want it, and they don’t consider the cost. That’s fine, that’s not a bad thing. Players should be selfish, it’s their money and time after all. But, it’s the designers job to see to the health of the game.
You’ve rehashed that you think the choice of doing 25 man content should be more rewarding. But what is the justification for that default stance? Why can’t 10 man loot progression be improved while 25 man remains more incentivized?
What is so healthy about the current balance in loot? Do you think Blizzard has seriously considered 10 man drop rates in Cata? What is your evidence on this?
Good contextual analysis. Unfortunately, yes, they are. Repeatedly, people stress that the choice of doing 10 man content should mean that you are disadvantaged in loot progression and so nothing should change. 25 man is so much harder because you have to organize 15 more people and so the raiders (that just show up and raid log) should get their BIS orders of magnitude faster.
That is gatekeeping loot progression based on raid size. Unlucky. The funny thing is I repeatedly stress that this imbalance isn’t the issue—10 man just needs another loot drop to increase loot acquisition from a glacial pace. Increase 25 man loot acquisition if necessary to alleviate this problem. The 25 man loot rates should not gatekeep the 10 man rates.
Nope, no one is gatekeeping you.
You are free to run raids and get a shot at loot.
No one is stopping you from getting loot. You have EXACTLY the same chance and EXACTLY the same amount of loot as any other 10 man.
The only way for you to be gatekept is if Blizzard said, everyone can raid to get 10 man gear except you. They have not done that and therefor you are not being gatekept.
What you want it free, easy, extra loot. That is not going to happen, and it never has.
Now your choices are clear. You can continue with 10 mans, move to 25 mans or stop.
You’re going to gather drop data from the logs? Also, I’m not going to link them to prevent venturing into the personal attack realm that a lot of the 25 man proponents espouse.
Your point is again not even contesting with my issue. If 10 man loot acquisition rates are increased, then increase 25 man as well to preserve the sanctity of the much harder and difficult to organize raid type that one person is still organizing while the rest raid log. I have no qualm with showing my respect to the holy bastion of raiding that is classic 25 mans.
The issue is loot acquisition in 10 man is glacial and will likely lead to my team’s burnout on another patch where power acquisition is so slow. You may not understand this point from your ivory tower of being rained on with loot as a hardcore 25 man player.
The bottom line is fun, but I do realize that concept is foreign to classic forum goers.
